If you notice that regen has started (high consumption, exhaust noise, i-Stop engine indicator), just downshift a gear or two. When engine revs over 3000, regen is done in less than 5 minutes.
Jukkeli
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Short answer is YES, but...
When DPF regen is on, you should get hi fuel consumption. But regeneration shouldn't be so often!
Actually, with my 1,5 skyactive diesel 55.000 km engine , I have the same (copy paste) issue! Last week I had my oil and filter changed after 3000 km- X level reached again for the second time in last 2-3 month's !!! Last 30 days I get regeneration every day!!! Every day!!! Last week I was on 40km highway trip - had DPF regeneration in both directions!!! Two times that day...
So in my case, regeneration gets at every 20-30km. I guess that I am holding some kind of 'DPF regen record' at this forum
So...I called official Mazda service...again, scheduled service for front brake pads replacement, and informed them about this issue.
Last time, when I had oil change after 3000 km, they told me 'This is normal...city driving...you must drive your car at highway occasionally...' Every week I have this ~80km highway ride, so their argument is a BS.
Last week, when I told them about my DPF regeneration and oil level rising, the answer was ' in that case, if it's all true what you are saying - you have a problem'... Well no way Mr. Sherlock Holms!!!
And procedure for my next Wednesday service visit, according to them is this:
-make diagnostics, what ever fault value is shown-they send it to Austria Mazda central, and then wait for suggestion what should be done?!? It could be 1-2 week for my car to stay at service...and price...who knows.
Then I asked them, ok... as far as I understand the issues with this diesel Mazda 'revolutionary diesel engine' we have 3 potential problems: DPF, EGR and Injectors? What you think, where is the problem? They told me that, probably there is a problem with injectors, but they will 'check everything'...
So, if I ever finish with this adventure, a will inform you.
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Thank you so much for the detailed story, Sasa Covic !
I'm glad that I'm not the one with this weird problem that none of Mazda official representatives can solve. It looks like you have exactly the same problem.
Please let me know what was the solution to this (if they solve the problem) so I can "copy-paste" that
Help is much appreciated !
I'm glad that I'm not the one with this weird problem that none of Mazda official representatives can solve. It looks like you have exactly the same problem.
Please let me know what was the solution to this (if they solve the problem) so I can "copy-paste" that
Help is much appreciated !
Well Yonef...I went to Mazda's official service last week, and there are some 'Good news' and some bad news...Thank you so much for the detailed story, Sasa Covic !
I'm glad that I'm not the one with this weird problem that none of Mazda official representatives can solve. It looks like you have exactly the same problem.
Please let me know what was the solution to this (if they solve the problem) so I can "copy-paste" that
Help is much appreciated !
'Good news' - they changed my front brake pads, and done diagnostics, and there was no error find!
And for the first time in my life, in my 25 years driving experience I expected and hoped to have some error's after diagnostic in order to get some start point with this nightmare...but no, there was none!!!
And then they told me ( I hope someone can understand this, because I can't ) they done some 'injectors reset in order to let them learn again' !?! So far I was convinced that injector is mechanical part but who knows...maybe denso made some smart ones for Mazda's - the one that can learn?!?
Bad news - I have to check my oil level regularly and if the level get hi again, then I should have my injectors replaced!!!
Then they told me that maybe Mazda can take some part in injector replacement expenses ( maybe 50% or 30% ), since my car is regularly maintained at official Mazda services...and the price for one is ~1000€...so if I change all 4, that is 30% of my car value at this point...'and when we change injectors we will check the other things like dpf, egr..'
And when I asked them why my car do DPF regen every day? -'that is ok...city driving'
After this, I had 180 km highway ride, and 4 regeneration...and informed them - 'regeneration is not the problem, just check the oil level' they say.
F..k you Mazda!!! Metnem ih sve na kurac!!!
I am not a mechanic, but there must be some logic solution for this problem! My car do DPF regen 4-5 times more often then it should...there can be some fault sensor ( exhaust pressure or temperature sensor ) which sends bad readings to main unit, and then it triggers regeneration?!?
Arathol ( forum moderator ) wrote about stuck EGR...I checked my self, after 55000 km, it have some soot on it, but its not stuck.
So far...still no solution and waiting for oil level to rise!!!
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Jeeez maaan, exactly the same story here.
This is third time I went to Mazda dealer for diagnose, and no error codes, BUT they told me that it is probably bad injectors that I need to replace ~3100 Euro. So I asked them, if the regeneration is not fixed after that, will they return all my money back - answer: No . So Fck you Mazda, I'm not experimenting with 3000 Euro because you don't know what is the damn problem of your own stupid DPF solution.
I also had EGR checked and cleaned, replaced bunch of exhaust sensors - Pre DPF temp. sensor, Past DPF temp sensor, differential pressure sensor, MAP sensor, and oxygen sensor on the exhaust. None of which changed anything.
Then I bought a self diagnostic OBD2 tool, to monitor all sensors in Realtime, and try to figure out when DPF regen starts. So far, I have no clue, it appear completely random - i.e. Differential Pressure Sensor show fairly constant values all the time and yet DFP regen is triggered again. I have measured it after DPF regen finished, and all the way till next regen occurred - pretty similar results, so I guess it is not Diff.Pressure that trigger the damn regen.
Also, as I might already said, but brought the car for DPF machine cleaning, and they took the DPF and measured it before cleaning and it was in mint condition, so it is not DPF that is clogged - needless to say DPF cleaning not helped at all.
About the Injector "training" - Mazda is ding this every time (3 times so far) when I take the car to the service - this is basically "training" for the ECU to use each injector properly, like if some injectors blow up more fuel, then ECU will correct this by shutting down nozzle earlier, and so on. Anyway it does not help at all.
So far there is only one option left unexplored - to replace the damn injectors for Sht-Load of money and hope it solve the problem, but if not then...
@ Sasa , I'll keep you posted if I find anything interesting, so please you keep me updated if you find anytning.
Thanks !
This is third time I went to Mazda dealer for diagnose, and no error codes, BUT they told me that it is probably bad injectors that I need to replace ~3100 Euro. So I asked them, if the regeneration is not fixed after that, will they return all my money back - answer: No . So Fck you Mazda, I'm not experimenting with 3000 Euro because you don't know what is the damn problem of your own stupid DPF solution.
I also had EGR checked and cleaned, replaced bunch of exhaust sensors - Pre DPF temp. sensor, Past DPF temp sensor, differential pressure sensor, MAP sensor, and oxygen sensor on the exhaust. None of which changed anything.
Then I bought a self diagnostic OBD2 tool, to monitor all sensors in Realtime, and try to figure out when DPF regen starts. So far, I have no clue, it appear completely random - i.e. Differential Pressure Sensor show fairly constant values all the time and yet DFP regen is triggered again. I have measured it after DPF regen finished, and all the way till next regen occurred - pretty similar results, so I guess it is not Diff.Pressure that trigger the damn regen.
Also, as I might already said, but brought the car for DPF machine cleaning, and they took the DPF and measured it before cleaning and it was in mint condition, so it is not DPF that is clogged - needless to say DPF cleaning not helped at all.
About the Injector "training" - Mazda is ding this every time (3 times so far) when I take the car to the service - this is basically "training" for the ECU to use each injector properly, like if some injectors blow up more fuel, then ECU will correct this by shutting down nozzle earlier, and so on. Anyway it does not help at all.
So far there is only one option left unexplored - to replace the damn injectors for Sht-Load of money and hope it solve the problem, but if not then...
@ Sasa , I'll keep you posted if I find anything interesting, so please you keep me updated if you find anytning.
Thanks !
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If you guys are using the less volatile bio-diesel (Fatty Acid Methyl Ester or FAME blend), skip it.
DPF equipped diesels were not built for incity driving. If such is the use, go for periodic long drives. DPFs can only properly operate(*correction: passive regen) at higher exhaust temps (600°C +)....One can't come near this w/ short & slow trips.
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DPF equipped diesels were not built for incity driving. If such is the use, go for periodic long drives. DPFs can only properly operate(*correction: passive regen) at higher exhaust temps (600°C +)....One can't come near this w/ short & slow trips.
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Aratol,
If Yonef changed everything ( except injectors ), it makes sense to me too that there is a 'software issue'. Also, there are same symptoms with 2,2 and 1,5 engines?!? And diesel engines they made have a oil dipstick marked with min, max and 'X' oil mark. So obviously they expected oil rise with a non 'ad-blue' DPF regeneration system.
Also, I would like to believe that car brand like Mazda, would have 'software update solution' for this problem.
But it is obviously, when they realized that there is a fckup with 'revolutionary skyactive diesel engine' - they gave up, stop diesel production and left the customers with a big problem... and trust me, there is a lot of 2014-2018 Mazda diesel car sold in Europe!!!
I really don't expect that engineers who participated in the development of this engine should perform 'hara-kiri', but some kind of solution would be fair.
At this point, even if you ( theoretically ) change complete engine with all components and electronics, official manufacturer cannot guarantee that problem will be solved.
So...let's set it simple:
my car do a lot of unnecessary DPF regeneration, making oil diluted with fuel and oil lever rising! How to stop unnecessary DPF regeneration? instead of 4-5 times per 200 km, just once?
Minsanity,
I understand your point, but...at one of my previous ( long, boring ) posts, I wrote:
'...And when I asked them why my car do DPF regen every day? -'that is ok...city driving'
After this, I had 180 km highway ride, and 4 regeneration...and informed them - 'regeneration is not the problem, just check the oil level' they say...'
And you wrote:
'DPF equipped diesels were not built for incity driving.'
This is not a first time that I find or read a statement like this or similar, but let me tell you one thing:
I bought a passenger vehicle for my family, I didn't buy a truck...
I never even thought that a manufacturer like Mazda could make a passenger vehicle that is only intended for driving on highways...so please, don't get me wrong, but my common sense can't accept this kind of information.
Every other car brands in Europe uses the same fuel, EGR, DPF system...when a problem occurs - clean EGR, clean DPF and drives normal after that...but that is not the same situation with magnificent Mazda skyactive diesel technology...
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We all know the 2 types of regeneration the ECU will trigger once it senses the need. Incity use will likely get you more of the 'Active Regen Cycle' where fuel will be injected into the oxidation catalyst. More of this type of regeneration will risk oil dilution.
This is a widely known drawback of the DPF Diesels, not Mazda-specific as @arathol mentioned. Merc, BMW(sampled below), VW, Volvo, & other makes, they all face the same issues. I always advise those in the hunt to go petrol if their regular routes are short & slow.
You're not alone in your frustration, sir. This is why there are DPF-delete services offered, but for 'offroad' applications only....in other words, e-unfriendly & not legal.
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Ok, but except the suggestion that we should do a DPF remove or buy a petrol car, do you have any other idea?We all know the 2 types of regeneration the ECU will trigger once it senses the need. Incity use will likely get you more of the 'Active Regen Cycle' where fuel will be injected into the oxidation catalyst. More of this type of regeneration will risk oil dilution.
This is a widely known drawback of the DPF Diesels, not Mazda-specific as @arathol mentioned. Merc, BMW(sampled below), VW, Volvo, & other makes, they all face the same issues. I always advise those in the hunt to go petrol if their regular routes are short & slow.
You're not alone in your frustration, sir. This is why there are DPF-delete services offered, but for 'offroad' applications only....in other words, e-unfriendly & not legal.![Image]()
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Lemme share you this post/thread from Oz about Manual Regeneration by Ashme(@ASH8, is this you?[emoji4])
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tried this...it wont trigger the regeneration in my caseLemme share you this post/thread from Oz about Manual Regeneration by Ashme(@ASH8, is this you?[emoji4])
I, too, am old school & agree w/ the guy that DPF Diesels aren't for everyone.![Image]()
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I absolutely agree with the doubts that Arathol has, but like Yonef already said, when we go to dealers official service they say that there is no ECU error - change injectors 3000+€...no guarantee that problem would be solved ( shortly speaking )!
So I cant go to dealers service and tell them 'Ok...make a software update!'
Anyhow, at least we are keeping this part of forum alive...
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@ Sasa, and @minsanity.
Just got (again) to Mazda dealership where they performed "forced regen" - they started the regen process via software while car was cooled down with fans in Mazda service. It took 12 min. to complete (fairly short time) and measuring differential pressure of DPF before and after were very similar , as I said, my DPF is clean, and in "mint" condition according to Mazda personnel. So this does not helped at all, next regen was 72 km later on the highway.
I also forgot to mention that first time I brought the car to Mazda, first thing they do is complete re-flash of the ECU cause they thought I did a software chip-tunning which is causing often regens. Obviously they were wrong. This changed nothing. Also according to them, my ECU were updated with firmware of 2019 (latest ECU procedures) - my original software was from 2014. They said there are few differences (not related to DPF) but still worth updating.
What I did figured so far, is that DPF and EGR are in perfect condition, yet regens happen very often. The only experiment is I'm not willing to do is spending 3200 Euro for injectors to find out that this solves nothing. maybe if someone (from Mazda) can guarantee this will help, and if not return my money back - then I will try. I'm seriously considering DFP delete now - probably only solution to this nonsense.
How come Mazda personnel can't tell conditions that trigger DPF regen !? This is not serious, there should be known conditions that trigger ECU to start regen, how come nobody know that!?
I can only guarantee that this is NOT DPF Differential Pressure, as mine sits very low all the time.
Just got (again) to Mazda dealership where they performed "forced regen" - they started the regen process via software while car was cooled down with fans in Mazda service. It took 12 min. to complete (fairly short time) and measuring differential pressure of DPF before and after were very similar , as I said, my DPF is clean, and in "mint" condition according to Mazda personnel. So this does not helped at all, next regen was 72 km later on the highway.
I also forgot to mention that first time I brought the car to Mazda, first thing they do is complete re-flash of the ECU cause they thought I did a software chip-tunning which is causing often regens. Obviously they were wrong. This changed nothing. Also according to them, my ECU were updated with firmware of 2019 (latest ECU procedures) - my original software was from 2014. They said there are few differences (not related to DPF) but still worth updating.
What I did figured so far, is that DPF and EGR are in perfect condition, yet regens happen very often. The only experiment is I'm not willing to do is spending 3200 Euro for injectors to find out that this solves nothing. maybe if someone (from Mazda) can guarantee this will help, and if not return my money back - then I will try. I'm seriously considering DFP delete now - probably only solution to this nonsense.
How come Mazda personnel can't tell conditions that trigger DPF regen !? This is not serious, there should be known conditions that trigger ECU to start regen, how come nobody know that!?
I can only guarantee that this is NOT DPF Differential Pressure, as mine sits very low all the time.
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This is how I see it - The regen system is working properly....that is its doing what the software is telling it to do according to whatever parameters are set. The problem is the software has bugs in it, and thats something the techs haven't got a clue about. They only know how to fix things according to the charts and procedures in the service manual. Outside that, they don't know any more than you about this. Best bet here is call Mazda Customer Service and escalate the claim. Mazda might need to send an engineer to see whats going on.
I absolutely agree with you!
But, then... you have to consider the other fact: there is a bunch of 2.2 and 1.5 diesel engines with same software and no problems?!?
That is why I use to think that there is a 'hardware' fault that sends the wrong readings to ECU, but then @Yonef informed us that he changed all sensors that should effect regen, but again with no positive results.
This is disappointing but - also absolutely TRUE!!!
When I had the second complaint for DPF regen and oil level rise, they told me 'we will do diagnostics and whatever fault code appears-we will send it to Mazda headquarters and then wait for them to tell us what to do'! Unfortunately, my car didn't show any error code...so they concluded that best solution for my car is - new injectors?!? How??? Injectors do the job that ECU ordered, because ECU get info that regen should start!!! Why do you blame the injectors??? How did you come to that conclusion???
I have no doubt they are good mechanics, but today's vehicles have anti pollution systems controlled by a bunch of sensors with bunch of electronic controlled by a ECU - and at the end - that affects mechanics!?!
Aaaaaaand one more thing!
After all the facts that's been mentioned in previous posts, I still like to think that, despite the all sensors and electronics - the solution could be very simple ( I'm just thinking ) :
DPF pressure sensor is the part which sends wrong info and triggers the regeneration!
If we assume that the sensor is correct and DPF is clean - maybe there is problem somewhere in between of these two parts?
As far as I understand sensor gets information from DPF with 2 hoses? What if one of crappy rubber hoses is slightly cracked or slightly clogged, just enough to send lover pressure info to the sensor? And then, sensor does what it suppose to do - it assumes that DPF is 'filthy' and informs ECU about this! After this, ECU send command to start regeneration and this vicious circle never ends and it is constantly repeated?
Please excuse me for this childish explanation, but I'm very obsessed with this problem, and every spare time I have - I spend it trying to find some logic solution for this problem.
So I am sorry to bother you all.
After all the facts that's been mentioned in previous posts, I still like to think that, despite the all sensors and electronics - the solution could be very simple ( I'm just thinking ) :
DPF pressure sensor is the part which sends wrong info and triggers the regeneration!
If we assume that the sensor is correct and DPF is clean - maybe there is problem somewhere in between of these two parts?
As far as I understand sensor gets information from DPF with 2 hoses? What if one of crappy rubber hoses is slightly cracked or slightly clogged, just enough to send lover pressure info to the sensor? And then, sensor does what it suppose to do - it assumes that DPF is 'filthy' and informs ECU about this! After this, ECU send command to start regeneration and this vicious circle never ends and it is constantly repeated?
Please excuse me for this childish explanation, but I'm very obsessed with this problem, and every spare time I have - I spend it trying to find some logic solution for this problem.
So I am sorry to bother you all.
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You're in the right forum. Just very few have diesels or have chosen them here. Feel free to share & rant, sir.
The way I see it? It's somewhere between the ECU & DPF. And, if those techs should suspect injectors for whatever reason, they should've given cleaning a crack....What will cleaning or new injectors do? Inject better & even more fuel during active regens to dilute oil further?[emoji848]
iStop & DPF are reasons why I opted for Skyactivs w/o them. I genuinely hope this huntdown will end happily.[emoji120] Do keep us posted.
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Hah, That is a good point Sasa!
This week I was at tuning shop to do a diagnostic and try to find out why this nonsense keep happening, few interesting stuff:
1. they have unplugged Diff.Pressure.Sensor and plugged an analog gauge to measure differential pressure (they said they don't trust the sensor) then they put the car on the dyno, and drove for a while, all readings for Diff Pressure were just fine (no spikes or anything, just as my Diff Pressure reports)
2. They monitor fuel injectors and found that ECU commands injectors to increase (time of spray) - Normally at about 4000 RPM injectors should spray for 130ms, mine was commanded to spray for 200ms - this they say is like a software chip-tunning. BUT they said that the ECU software is "stock" and it is not chipped, it just behaves like a chipped. and since fuel is increased this makes the car to run on fuel rich mixture, which produce more smoke, which trigger DPF regen regardless of Diff.Pressure.
The weird thing is that they "tweaked" ECU to decrease fuel spray time to compensate (opposite of chip-tunning) and it worked fine for couple of minutes, then ECU decides apply higher correction on the injectors to increase fuel rate again.
They explained that this is normal behavior by ECU if it detects that it need to increase exhaust temp.
For some reason ECU thinks that it need to increase exhaust temperature EVEN though all readings from all sensors are reporting normal values.
Conclusion: ECU thinks it need to increase exhaust temp. by adding more fuel, but adding more fuel makes it fuel-rich mixture, which creates more smoke, But more smoke is detected by ECU (regardless DPF is not clogged yet) and commands to start DPF regen before it got clogged. And it produces more smoke because the fcuk-ing ECU commands injectors to increase fuel rate. And it is all going in this magic circle.
the guys from the tuning said that replacing injectors MAY/MAY NOT fix the problem. They are unsure why ECU will try to increase fuel rate when all readings from sensors are within the working boundaries. At least I know what ECU demand more fuel out of injectors, the problem is nobody know WHY. This is the only "fault" that can be identified, no trouble codes, not wrong readings, no faulty sensors, nothing else.
meanwhile, I did 3200km and my oil need to go down the drain as it reached "x" mark on the dipstick (because it did 40 regens already)
@ Sasa, if you have a chance, test your fuel rate, if ECU is commanding injectors to spray more fuel. I wonder if this same thing is the culprit of the problem.
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