[jmatt98]

So I have a 2014 mazda 3 i touring, bone stock wheels/suspension as of right now, and have been looking into changing out the shocks/struts for something that'll lower the car a little but will also handle better and be more comfortable for daily driving/commuting. I was doing my own research on whether or not I should change out just the springs but keeping the oem shocks/struts, changing out shocks/struts and springs, or installing coilovers, and I've heard a bunch of different opinions on why one is better then the other and I'm not sure what the best route would be.
I've been leaning more towards installing KYB Excel-G shocks/struts but for springs I'm still having trouble deciding. I'm not 100% KYB is worth it either, I'm not looking to spend a bunch of money so if there's any somewhat budget friendly options I could take a look at that'd be killer.

 

[CerealKiller]

Moderate drop with moderate spring rate increase would be Racing Beat. $260 or so though.. I'm not an Eibach fan but lots of people use them. They are priced similar to RB and offer a moderate drop as well but a little more than RB.

There's always OEM or KYB for stock like options.
CK

 

[arathol]

Do yourself a favor and replace the shocks. If the ones on your car are the original parts they are toast by now....

 

[jmaister]

Bilstein B4 strut shocks set. love them.


edit: with good suspension set, comes great maintenance lol... strong dampers exposes weak bushings....

 

[Luis_Heineken]

Do yourself a favor and replace the shocks. If the ones on your car are the original parts they are toast by now....

Plus all 4 links and sway bars bushings

 

[DBarnes]

So I have a 2014 mazda 3 i touring, bone stock wheels/suspension as of right now, and have been looking into changing out the shocks/struts for something that'll lower the car a little but will also handle better and be more comfortable for daily driving/commuting. I was doing my own research on whether or not I should change out just the springs but keeping the oem shocks/struts, changing out shocks/struts and springs, or installing coilovers, and I've heard a bunch of different opinions on why one is better then the other and I'm not sure what the best route would be.
I've been leaning more towards installing KYB Excel-G shocks/struts but for springs I'm still having trouble deciding. I'm not 100% KYB is worth it either, I'm not looking to spend a bunch of money so if there's any somewhat budget friendly options I could take a look at that'd be killer.

For the most comfortable lowering spring I would recommend Eibach. They’re a progressive rate spring, and start softer than stock, and ramp up to stiffer than stock, as they compress over larger bumps. About 1.2” drop.
They are not a good handling lowering spring, if that matters. The rear springs are too soft vs front, and they have a ridiculously stiff bump stop included for the front strut. It makes up part of the higher front progressive spring rate when compressed, I believe the last 10mm of travel, or 10% of the higher rate. I would buy a better front bump stop, or trim 10mm off the Eibach bump stops.
The Racing Beat (.75” drop) are one of the better handling lowering springs available, and are I believe about 10% stiffer up front, and 22-24% stiffer in the rear. This helps reduce the factory understeer built in. This isn’t really stiff at all though compared to coilovers, at 300+% stiffer front, and almost 200% stiffer rear.
OE springs are 2.55kg/mm Front, 3.05kg/mm rear. 143 lb/171lb I think.
A common (bad) spring rate for coilovers is 8kg Front, 5kg Rear. Not to mention the poorly tuned dampers that come with a lot of coilovers.
Once you get below a 1” drop, some of the oe replacement shocks like KYB, Bilstein B4, even the B6, will have less travel.
For comfort stick with Twin Tube shocks/dampers, similar to oe.
For performance with a stiffer ride, Monotube dampers are more precise, with better control, but are more jarring over impacts.

 

[DBarnes]

Bilstein B4 strut shocks set. love them.


edit: with good suspension set, comes great maintenance lol... strong dampers exposes weak bushings....

Are you running stock springs or lowered?

Did you add the B4 as a single upgrade, or with something else (like springs)?
I saw somewhere that the B4 is supposedly 10% stiffer valving than stock, and I figured they might be a great street damper with the Racing Beat springs?
What did you notice after installing them, vs stock?
Thanks!

 

[jmaister]

Are you running stock springs or lowered?

Did you add the B4 as a single upgrade, or with something else (like springs)?
I saw somewhere that the B4 is supposedly 10% stiffer valving than stock, and I figured they might be a great street damper with the Racing Beat springs?
What did you notice after installing them, vs stock?
Thanks!

Oh they are Real nice. Can Possibly due to the car being old and I haven't rode a new mazda in a long time mind you.

Having said so, one thing I notice is the car honkers down the longer you drive it (jacking down effect, Shaikh/fat cat motor sport videos)

And being gas struts, the static height on the front maybe higher after some acitivity due to internal pressure being high. After long rest, it comes back down to normal(may just be me)... I know kyb gas strut does this as well.

And after seeing how cheap oem units were, I think i would continue to get these ones.

Getting the rear shock mounts is tricky tho, I had to order from aliexpress...

I am seeing no need for Street spring for me... But I would think racingbeat is good match(was thinking about it). Strictly opinion tho.

Edit: stock spring. Tho my rears are newer oem(part number suffix changed), there seem to be subtle variation between the original and the revised.

 

[DBarnes]

Oh they are Real nice. Can Possibly due to the car being old and I haven't rode a new mazda in a long time mind you.

Having said so, one thing I notice is the car honkers down the longer you drive it (jacking down effect, Shaikh/fat cat motor sport videos)

And being gas struts, the static height on the front maybe higher after some acitivity due to internal pressure being high. After long rest, it comes back down to normal(may just be me)... I know kyb gas strut does this as well.

And after seeing how cheap oem units were, I think i would continue to get these ones.

Getting the rear shock mounts is tricky tho, I had to order from aliexpress...

I am seeing no need for Street spring for me... But I would think racingbeat is good match(was thinking about it). Strictly opinion tho.

Edit: stock spring. Tho my rears are newer oem(part number suffix changed), there seem to be subtle variation between the original and the revised.

Very interesting! So you think the B4 is rebound biased then? Which I think almost every off the shelf damper may be.
The B4 is a Twin Tube, like the OE, and the KYB GR-2 for our car. Usually the Twin Tubes shouldn’t add much ride height or pressure, since the nitrogen is mixed with the oil, and only 10-20 psi of nitrogen vs the 300 psi of nitrogen in a Monotube, like the Bilstein B6, B8 are. Monotubes with 300 psi of nitrogen typically having 60-80 psi of that “rod force” or “cracking force” Shaikh at FCM talks about in his videos.
I’m on ISC coilovers now, but they’re too stiff. Too high of a front spring rate caused understeer too. I removed them, and tested “rod force” and measured 70 lbs rear, 79 lbs front!! I reinstalled the rear ISC but reinstalled the stock front spring/strut. It actually handles very well, really rotates well, No understeer.

I bought Racing Beat springs and used Koni Yellow adjustables, but fronts need a rebuild. Just testing the rears showed 20 lbs of rod force though, with old stock rears measuring 13 lbs of rod/cracking force.
I wonder what the B4 would measure at?

At this point I’m going to install softer front springs (4Kg) in my ISCs and try that, and if I don’t like the harshness of those Monotube ISC dampers I’ll rebuild the Koni’s and try them with the Racing Beat.
I would consider the B4 with the Racing Beat if I knew they were a little stiffer than stock for sure. Or could see a dyno graph of them!

 

[jmaister]

Very interesting! So you think the B4 is rebound biased then? Which I think almost every off the shelf damper may be.
The B4 is a Twin Tube, like the OE, and the KYB GR-2 for our car. Usually the Twin Tubes shouldn’t add much ride height or pressure, since the nitrogen is mixed with the oil, and only 10-20 psi of nitrogen vs the 300 psi of nitrogen in a Monotube, like the Bilstein B6, B8 are. Monotubes with 300 psi of nitrogen typically having 60-80 psi of that “rod force” or “cracking force” Shaikh at FCM talks about in his videos.
I’m on ISC coilovers now, but they’re too stiff. Too high of a front spring rate caused understeer too. I removed them, and tested “rod force” and measured 70 lbs rear, 79 lbs front!! I reinstalled the rear ISC but reinstalled the stock front spring/strut. It actually handles very well, really rotates well, No understeer.

I bought Racing Beat springs and used Koni Yellow adjustables, but fronts need a rebuild. Just testing the rears showed 20 lbs of rod force though, with old stock rears measuring 13 lbs of rod/cracking force.
I wonder what the B4 would measure at?

At this point I’m going to install softer front springs (4Kg) in my ISCs and try that, and if I don’t like the harshness of those Monotube ISC dampers I’ll rebuild the Koni’s and try them with the Racing Beat.
I would consider the B4 with the Racing Beat if I knew they were a little stiffer than stock for sure. Or could see a dyno graph of them!

oh wow, talk about in depth. my hats off to you.

I dont know if its bias in anyways, i just thought thats the nature of gas. It will compress, but only to a certain point.

how do you find out if its mono or twin? I've always thought when its Gas, its mono. But then the MSDS say there mineral oil and gas...so thats very interesting.

When I had my gen 2, I always go with GasAjust for the rears, because of the two KYB had it just felt more sporty. I would say the B4 is at the minimum the same "stiffness" after priming(b4 felt stronger, but feeling is hardly reliable).

as to the GR2 raising the front, I wonder if its just bad design parameter on KYB's part. Because after running them for 3 years on my previous car, i went back to oem since the increased ride height was just not appealing.

and upon more staring at my car after some more driving... it does not rise as much as I thought....

 

[DBarnes]

oh wow, talk about in depth. my hats off to you.

I dont know if its bias in anyways, i just thought thats the nature of gas. It will compress, but only to a certain point.

how do you find out if its mono or twin? I've always thought when its Gas, its mono. But then the MSDS say there mineral oil and gas...so thats very interesting.

When I had my gen 2, I always go with GasAjust for the rears, because of the two KYB had it just felt more sporty. I would say the B4 is at the minimum the same "stiffness" after priming(b4 felt stronger, but feeling is hardly reliable).

as to the GR2 raising the front, I wonder if its just bad design parameter on KYB's part. Because after running them for 3 years on my previous car, i went back to oem since the increased ride height was just not appealing.

and upon more staring at my car after some more driving... it does not rise as much as I thought....

The KYB GR-2 are all Twin Tube, while the Gas a-Just are Monotube. Twin Tube have oil with ~10 psi of nitrogen mixed in, and ride much softer, while Monotube dampers have a larger body, larger internal piston, and have a oil cavity, then separating device, then 100-350 psi of nitrogen under the floating separator, to still pressurize the oil with the separator, to avoid oil cavitation. Because of that high nitrogen pressure, especially above 150 or so, you get a stiff damper, that’s harder to start the compression travel, having to overcome that gas force.
I’ve heard of aftermarket struts like KYB or Koni raising the front on a Gen 2, but only because they were improperly installed, not noticing a spline and tab that has to be located correctly in the weird circle strut mount of the upper steering knuckle. If the spline isn’t lined up with the slot, and/or the strut isn’t fully seated down in the circle of the steering knuckle, it raises the front .5” or so.
A Monotube rear with a Twin Tube front would theoretically remove some of the factory understeer, and handle better!!
Gen 3 is a different knuckle and strut mounting design.
I’m curious though of what you thought of a back to back drive from driving on oe shocks, then driving on the new B4 right after install?

 

[jmaister]

The KYB GR-2 are all Twin Tube, while the Gas a-Just are Monotube. Twin Tube have oil with ~10 psi of nitrogen mixed in, and ride much softer, while Monotube dampers have a larger body, larger internal piston, and have a oil cavity, then separating device, then 100-350 psi of nitrogen under the floating separator, to still pressurize the oil with the separator, to avoid oil cavitation. Because of that high nitrogen pressure, especially above 150 or so, you get a stiff damper, that’s harder to start the compression travel, having to overcome that gas force.
I’ve heard of aftermarket struts like KYB or Koni raising the front on a Gen 2, but only because they were improperly installed, not noticing a spline and tab that has to be located correctly in the weird circle strut mount of the upper steering knuckle. If the spline isn’t lined up with the slot, and/or the strut isn’t fully seated down in the circle of the steering knuckle, it raises the front .5” or so.
A Monotube rear with a Twin Tube front would theoretically remove some of the factory understeer, and handle better!!
Gen 3 is a different knuckle and strut mounting design.
I’m curious though of what you thought of a back to back drive from driving on oe shocks, then driving on the new B4 right after install?

I dont think back to back is possible now. but my last memory of a new 2019 mazda 3 was numb. I remember when I first drove this car off the lot i thought the same. Current setup is better I find.

i know, pretty vague. I wouldnt want more stiff tho. I Had b6 all around with H&R in a Audi long long time ago, I wouldnt want that sporty again, too harsh.