[CerealKiller]

I have had a few projects that involved lowering or removing the front and rear subframe and am now curious if it was put back misaligned.

I'm thinking doing basic measurements from the center wheel cap to the top and sides of the wheel arch on all corners with the wheels off the ground to start.

Then loosen the various subframe mounting bolts and shove it around until the figures even out. Then gradually tighten the mounting points one at a time and recheck the measurements again before finally torquing to spec.

Sound like a good idea or am I missing something in my plans?

Pls let me know.
CK

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Although the bolt-on fenders and the rear quarters are accurately rendered by pressing, it seems to me the floor pan and front frame horns are, in effect, the very accurate rendition of the car (and the elements that are measured after a serious collision... and for which clear, accurate dimensional specs exist)... The subframes bolt-on to these cpts. If your car is front- and rear wheel aligned currently, and if it drives well and no undue tire wear is occurring, it'd be my best advice to leave it well-alone. Seems to me if you slacken either subframe, now, you'd need a new front- and rear alignment (with optical jigs, etc).

To see what I mean, re after-collision measurements (albeit on a Mazda6) view this: http://nema.club/2014wsm/bodyshop manual/bodyshop.pdf
Detailed dimensions start on p. 128...

 

[CerealKiller]

Thx. After the clutch job my front alignment specs have been off somewhat and require the camber bolts to get within spec.

The dealership didn't remove it but the first shop did..
CK

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

CK, are you saying that the dealer removed the transaxle from above? Are you sure? Isn't the recommended-by-Mazda method from below? With a two post lift, say, the latter is the way to go it seems to me.

 

[RocketmanKarl]

I suppose it's possible that the shop mechanic put the subframe back in a little askew. The subframe is isolated from the car by bushings and it's possible that the alignment of the subframe wasn't great and they bolted it in without getting it straight. You could loosen the subframe bolts and let it hang a bit, then re-tighten and get a new wheel alignment. No guarantees it will fix the problem, but it might help...

 

[CerealKiller]

CK, are you saying that the dealer removed the transaxle from above? Are you sure? Isn't the recommended-by-Mazda method from below? With a two post lift, say, the latter is the way to go it seems to me.

Yes. I questioned my alignment numbers afterwards and learned that they didn't remove the subframe but instead removed the hood and part of the cowell to lift it out.

I've had positive camber up front since the initial shop worked on it and my maxed out adjustable cam bolts just get it to zero out.
CK

 

[CerealKiller]

Although the bolt-on fenders and the rear quarters are accurately rendered by pressing, it seems to me the floor pan and front frame horns are, in effect, the very accurate rendition of the car (and the elements that are measured after a serious collision... and for which clear, accurate dimensional specs exist)... The subframes bolt-on to these cpts. If your car is front- and rear wheel aligned currently, and if it drives well and no undue tire wear is occurring, it'd be my best advice to leave it well-alone. Seems to me if you slacken either subframe, now, you'd need a new front- and rear alignment (with optical jigs, etc).

To see what I mean, re after-collision measurements (albeit on a Mazda6) view this: http://nema.club/2014wsm/bodyshop manual/bodyshop.pdf
Detailed dimensions start on p. 128...

I have the mazda 3 2014 service manual but am having a hard time finding it..

May just take it to a frame and alignment shop and have them figure it out..

Installing new struts and springs and a front LCA first.
CK

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I have the mazda 3 2014 service manual but am having a hard time finding it..

May just take it to a frame and alignment shop and have them figure it out..

Installing new struts and springs and a front LCA first.
CK

For the 2014+ 3rd gen SkyActiv Mazda6 the body repair manual is a separate document, entitled "Body Shop Manual". It's a 150 p.+ manual. I suspect it's the same for the 3rd gen Mazda3.

 

[arathol]

I have the mazda 3 2014 service manual but am having a hard time finding it..

May just take it to a frame and alignment shop and have them figure it out..

Installing new struts and springs and a front LCA first.
CK

As you already know, front camber is fixed, there is no adjustment. The only way to change camber is either move the top of the strut or alter the angle of the hub on the bottom with camber bolts. Struts also show an increase in positive camber under load.
If both sides are showing positive camber, I don't think that the subframe is the problem. A subframe that has been mis-aligned should show a change in toe or caster, but not camber. To get positive camber on both sides, either the dimensions between the upper strut mounts or the hubs have changed, or the hub-to-strut mounting angles have changed.
How do the panel alignments and shut lines around the fenders look? Are the seams even, the same width along the entire length? How about the seams around the cowling?
You said that the transaxle was removed twice, both from the top and the bottom at some point......any chance that the struts were removed and re-installed wrong?
How about the axles? Do you know if they were removed or just disconnected?

 

[CerealKiller]

Thx. Well.. my driver side strut came undone and started leaking fluid two weeks after the initial shop worked on it..

Wheel bearings failed too and were replaced under warranty shortly after.

Alignment is in spec thx to adjustable cam bolts.. -1.25 degrees of adjustment factored in.. Alignment print our show -0.1 camber driver and -0.2 for passenger.

I used to naturally get about -1 degrees with the lowering springs and I'd use cam bolts to go a little further.

Struts are aligned correctly in their mounting holes and all else should be good.

I will probably take it to a frame and alignment shop that has worked on the car in the past to get this sorted out.

I'm just waiting on new struts and the stock strut mounts to arrive. Then new springs.. installing Koni FSD shocks in rear with stock bump stops and covers. New front LCAs from Mevotech. Then fine tuning stuff..
CK

 

[arathol]

If you

Thx. Well.. my driver side strut came undone and started leaking fluid two weeks after the initial shop worked on it..

Wheel bearings failed too and were replaced under warranty shortly after.

Alignment is in spec thx to adjustable cam bolts.. -1.25 degrees of adjustment factored in.. Alignment print our show -0.1 camber driver and -0.2 for passenger.

I used to naturally get about -1 degrees with the lowering springs and I'd use cam bolts to go a little further.

Struts are aligned correctly in their mounting holes and all else should be good.

I will probably take it to a frame and alignment shop that has worked on the car in the past to get this sorted out.

I'm just waiting on new struts and the stock strut mounts to arrive. Then new springs.. installing Koni FSD shocks in rear with stock bump stops and covers. New front LCAs from Mevotech. Then fine tuning stuff..
CK

I'd bet that the first shop had a fairly steep learning curve and things didn't go as easy as they could have. Its quite possible that they used a BFH to take things apart and get them back together and something got tweaked in the process.....

 

[CerealKiller]

I just hope my alignment guy can figure it out without having to replace a bunch of stuff..

His hobby is buying wrecked racers and classic sports cars and putting them back together.. so, thinking he's a good guy to ask for help.
CK

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

If the subframe somehow were bolted-in higher relative to the body shell (like, for example, if some type of washer or spacer were left out from ea. bolting location) would that give more +ve camber? Grasping at straws.

 

[arathol]

If the subframe somehow were bolted-in higher relative to the body shell (like, for example, if some type of washer or spacer were left out from ea. bolting location) would that give more +ve camber? Grasping at straws.

There aren't any spacers as such. The mounting bolts as I remember don't have washers, but rather a large flange. There is a rubber isolator bushing, but there wouldn't be much reason to pull it out, and those bushings locate the bolts in the frame. You can't put it back together without them. Even so, I don't think the effect on alignment would be much more than lowering the car a tiny bit.
Doesn't the front frame also support the engine? If so it would be sort of difficult to have it out of alignment....