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Da belle of da ball.
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Discussion Starter #141
It's not that it is sensitive. It has a mind of its own. I've held the gas pedal when it surged and after a few seconds, with the same amount of very slight pressure, the car will feel like you let go of the gas. That's not a sensitivity issue. That's shitty programming.


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EtOH
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The surging when going into neutral (during shifting etc) is normal when it's cold. It's a result of the emissions drastically increasing from the sudden drop in load. It's been on cars for years.
 

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I have started experiencing this now that the weather has warmed up and I'm running the AC. I have experienced it shifting up and down in different gears. I haven't been able to pin anything down on why, where or how to replicate it. It isn't super dangers or anything but really annoying and only lasts a split second.
 

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happens to me sometimes when shifting into 3rd gear, ive noticed this happens when my revs are below 3k close to 2k. its like as though the car is giving a boost for the engine when in low rpms?
 

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I really think they have the drive by wire programmed to 'help' you clutch somehow.... I gave up trying to rev match anymore because this was such a problem for me... haha caused me to burn out in 2nd once because i had the music up loud and didnt notice the over revving. I wish i could look into this computer!
 

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I really think they have the drive by wire programmed to 'help' you clutch somehow.... I gave up trying to rev match anymore because this was such a problem for me... haha caused me to burn out in 2nd once because i had the music up loud and didnt notice the over revving. I wish i could look into this computer!
I agree, but it doesn't make sense since it happens inconsistently. But it does appear that it happens mostly on downshifting and is trying to make it such that you can shift down and just release the clutch instead of having to give it some gas to get the RPMs up before lifting the clutch.
 

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I've had something similar happen at least once every time I go somewhere.

Shifting from 4th to 5th a lot of time I will experience a surge. Nothing major or alarming, but when it happens I lift off the gas the slightest amount possible and the surge will stop.

Then, if I try pushing the accelerator down it has to be mashed to get anywhere near the amount of acceleration equal to the surge.

I chalked it up to the fly by wire pedal.

Have not experienced the down shift version yet, but I'll pay attention now.

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No surge in acceleration recently when i downshift.. It has happened to me a couple times like a year ago, and I stopped rev-matching while I downshift which I think it is the culprit of the surge.
 

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To me this sounds like strategy to improve MPGs by reducing the engine braking. It seems like you guys are using the clutch to slow the car down and the PCM is opening the throttle to counteract that. Try giving it a rev before letting the clutch out, or getting the gear before the turn.

I had a weird thing happen to me the other day. I didn't have a surge, but when I downshifted to 3rd I stepped on the gas and it just bogged down for a few seconds and wouldn't go anywhere.


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I agree this is a programming issue as well.
This happens to me on 3rd gear mostly (down or up shifting) so I've remedied it by tapping the accelerator to see if it'll surge then going on w/ the acceleration, then proceeding to letting go of the clutch. A little annoying, but it's become part of my muscle memory...
I'm tempted to add cameras on the dashboard and near the pedal to show it happen.
 

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I forgot about reading this for a few months after getting my Mazda 3.

I'm getting the surging going from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th...usually when I'm shifting a little early. Kinda scary the first few times, but not that bad once you're ready for it. Could be a problem if you get lazy in traffic though.

I'm in 70-85 degree weather out in cali.
 

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I experienced the "surging" issue on 2013 Mazda 3 I got couple days ago. As others mentioned, it happened downshifting from 4th to 3rd and then 3rd to 2nd. It only happens (intermittently) if I am intentionally keeping the rev from dropping down by blipping or giving a little gas when clutch pedal is depressed or not yet disengaged. No surging if I let off the gas completely and then try to rev match as I release the clutch pedal.
 

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As a mountain driver who has almost always driven a manual - I learned on one - I think this thread is mistaking surging for the engine trying to match the rpms and hitting a compression point where it is slightly more efficient.

This is one of the reasons you don't want to shift into first while moving, but now we have an engine that runs with high compression through all gears, which probably makes it more noticeable?

-Crissa
 

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Da belle of da ball.
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Discussion Starter #156 (Edited)
As a mountain driver who has almost always driven a manual - I learned on one - I think this thread is mistaking surging for the engine trying to match the rpms and hitting a compression point where it is slightly more efficient.

This is one of the reasons you don't want to shift into first while moving, but now we have an engine that runs with high compression through all gears, which probably makes it more noticeable?

-Crissa
If it's trying to match revs, which results in unintended acceleration, then it is surging.

I don't know what else to call it. I downshift, then input just enough gas to maintain the lower speed, it accelerates, then a couple seconds later, with the exact same throttle input, the acceleration stops. It's strange and unsettling.
 

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Your body knows how much push on the pedal equates to how much throttle. Try it with gear in neutral and and see what pressure on the pedal make the rpm go up to certain point. You will be surprised to find that your body can pretty accurately hit nearly the same rpm for certain pressure on the pedal.

When we experience surging, the same pressure on the gas pedal seems to be over-amplified with the rpm going WAY up. Trying to replicate with nearly same setup can't get the surging to repeat... so I am guessing that some signal/noise/error in the engine control system is responsible, and not due to inexperienced rev matching.

BTW, because I purposely let the rpm drop somewhat before I engage gear when downshifting, I haven't experienced any surging for few weeks now.
 

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If it's trying to match revs, which results in unintended acceleration, then it is surging.
But you're giving it contrary instructions, by stepping on the gas. You oughtn't be giving it gas. More efficient or high compression engines are actually more likely to do this, because the amount on the pedal is so little to get so much more out of the engine.

It's not something you'd ever notice on a big pig like a Chevy, because it gulps, not sips. The amount difference may be the same in absolute, but in relative terms, the variance is tiny on a big engine. On a small engine, or efficient/high compression, the difference is much more apparent.

-Crissa
 

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I just posted an independent thread on this before becoming aware of this thread. For me, the problem happens when going from 3rd to 2nd. Always before entering a curve. From what I can tell, the best explanation is that its an intentional "feature" attempting to maximize fuel economy (by reducing compression braking?). If so, IMHO, it is wholly inappropriate for a manual transmission car to make decisions based on fuel economy that bypass the operator. Engine preservation decisions yes (drop throttle at redline), but applying throttle in order to maximize MPG is a major safety issue (again IMHO). As has been stated before, this could cause a novice MT driver to lose control of the vehicle. If I wanted the car to make decisions for me, I woulda bought an auto...

I was initially excited to see that this post was started over a year ago, however am disappointed (in Mazda) to learn that there has been no resolution. As a former attorney, the issue screams product liability waiting to happen.

I'm attempting to be unemotional about the whole thing, however I moved from BMW to Mazda because I'm the type who is emotional (in an enthusiast sense) about cars. This is NOT what I thought Zoom-Zoom meant! :p Seriously though, I've noticed that I'm developing a slightly negative relationship with the car. I purchase cars that I want to drive. Not cars that I am anxious about driving because I may, at any time, need to need to make corrections to prevent an accident that was caused by the ECU. And in my case, without my intervention there would be an accident almost every time this happens (surge of gas in a curve)!:argh 1:

Just my $0.02
 

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Surging is not a "feature" LOL

If that's happening to you on every downshift then maybe its something to do with the way you drive. It very rarely happens to me and usually its at low speeds and more likely with the ac on. I imagine an instance happens where you dont give it enough throttle so it tries to save itself but over compensates and you get a surge. If that's the case a pcm update should fix it but who knows
 
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