[reeves]

Crazy question but, can the rear bar be installed without having to undo a control arm and removing a spring?

I think I remember one company said you didn't in their install (I could be mistaken), but most say you do.

The work itself isn't an issue, but I won't have time to get to an alignment shop to redo the autocross setup for another month and with the soft rubber bushings we have, undoing one side will result in the settings getting messed up (even though it's a round bolt, round hole setup - those soft rubber bushings are under tension and the toe won't be the same afterwards).

Highly unlikely because there's just no room up there to maneuver your arm/hand & tools around to take off the RSB brackets. I think the springs will be in the way too once you're ready to remove the sway bar itself.

If it helps, I didn't get an alignment yet after swapping out my RSB, springs, and shocks. It's been a few months now, it still drives & tracks straight with no vibrations in the steering wheel when I let go of the steering wheel at 70 mph on the highway. I'll let you know if the tires start to wear unevenly, but so far no indication of that either.

Yea, yea... I know I'm suppose to get an alignment, but I like to do things my way and "test" the need for an alignment after doing suspension work. And I'm ready to buy new grippier tires anyway so I dont' care if my tires wear unevenly. I'm sure my toe and camber aren't "ideal" but it sure feels good to me when I'm driving so we'll see.

Also my car is still fairly new so maybe my rubber bushings aren't as worn as older cars. That could make a difference in how out of spec things are.

 

[sccaracer75years]

Found it! It was Racing Beat's bar... It makes no mention of removing the lower control arm bolt where it mounts to the hub/bearing spindle assembly and removing the spring. The instructions are written to sound like the bar can be maneuvered out so long as you can access the 14mm bolts holding the brackets to the subframe.

Racing Beat RSB Instructions

 

[sccaracer75years]

If it helps, I didn't get an alignment yet after swapping out my RSB, springs, and shocks. It's been a few months now, it still drives & tracks straight with no vibrations in the steering wheel when I let go of the steering wheel at 70 mph on the highway. I'll let you know if the tires start to wear unevenly, but so far no indication of that either.

Yea, yea... I know I'm suppose to get an alignment, but I like to do things my way and "test" the need for an alignment after doing suspension work. And I'm ready to buy new grippier tires anyway so I dont' care if my tires wear unevenly. I'm sure my toe and camber aren't "ideal" but it sure feels good to me when I'm driving so we'll see.

Also my car is still fairly new so maybe my rubber bushings aren't as worn as older cars. That could make a difference in how out of spec things are.

The alignment will absolutely be off... Maybe not a ton, but I am a serious autocrosser and occasional track day person, so alignments are critical. A good alignment is worth almost .4 sec to .5 sec. on a 60 second autocross course. Also, I run -1/8" total toe out front and rear to help this 106.3" wheelbase beast rotate better. Not as good as the CRX racecar we're selling, but better. LOL!

 

[reeves]

The alignment will absolutely be off... Maybe not a ton, but I am a serious autocrosser and occasional track day person, so alignments are critical. A good alignment is worth almost .4 sec to .5 sec. on a 60 second autocross course. Also, I run -1/8" total toe out front and rear to help this 106.3" wheelbase beast rotate better. Not as good as the CRX racecar we're selling, but better. LOL!

Yep, then you'll definitely need an alignment. I just drive hard on the streets so it's not a big deal to me lol

Found it! It was Racing Beat's bar... It makes no mention of removing the lower control arm bolt where it mounts to the hub/bearing spindle assembly and removing the spring. The instructions are written to sound like the bar can be maneuvered out so long as you can access the 14mm bolts holding the brackets to the subframe.

Racing Beat RSB Instructions

If you have really long, skinny but really strong arms & fingers I guess technically it could be done... just unlikely. Don't know if I've come across anyone on these forums who've successfully done it without removing the springs & control arm.

* Also, the gen3 RSB picture on their site is the same for the gen2 LOL. Not saying the instructions are wrong... just that they didn't care enough about the gen3 RSB to get it accurate.. how accurate can the instructions be?

 

[CerealKiller]

I'm pretty sure you can pull it through the wheel well if you take one off, undo and remove both brackets holding the RSB and disconnect the end links.
CK

 

[reeves]

I'm pretty sure you can pull it through the wheel well if you take one off, undo and remove both brackets holding the RSB and disconnect the end links.
CK

Been genuinely curious to see someone try this, and what combo of sockets & wrenches (or other weirdly angled/offset tools) you'll need to pull it off.

 

[Y100 Motors]

Crazy question but, can the rear bar be installed without having to undo a control arm and removing a spring?

I think I remember one company said you didn't in their install (I could be mistaken), but most say you do.

The work itself isn't an issue, but I won't have time to get to an alignment shop to redo the autocross setup for another month and with the soft rubber bushings we have, undoing one side will result in the settings getting messed up (even though it's a round bolt, round hole setup - those soft rubber bushings are under tension and the toe won't be the same afterwards).

I did it that way, mainly because I didn't have the necessary tools or confidence to mess with the control arm/spring. I guarantee it's definitely a trickier process without, specifically removing and re-attaching the sway bar brackets. The ability to partially drop the subframe as some have posted here would've made those steps much less aggravating. Easily took up the most time of the whole process for me. A flexible ratchet that can fit in that area would've helped too, but I was too stubborn/cheap/impatient to go out and find one.

 

[CerealKiller]

14mm mid length socket and a small/stubby socket wrench. A combo 14mm ratcheting wrench 🔧 helps with the top end link nut on the RSB. A wobble adapter for the 14mm socket helps on the top RSB bracket nut.
CK

 

[reeves]

I did it that way, mainly because I didn't have the necessary tools or confidence to mess with the control arm/spring. I guarantee it's definitely a trickier process without, specifically removing and re-attaching the sway bar brackets. The ability to partially drop the subframe as some have posted here would've made those steps much less aggravating. Easily took up the most time of the whole process for me. A flexible ratchet that can fit in that area would've helped too, but I was too stubborn/cheap/impatient to go out and find one.

How did you even fit your hand and wrench/socket to access the upper inside bracket bolt? I mean, without getting your hand all scraped & bloody lol
Especially with aftermarket brackets, access to the bolt is even harder. I guess you guys have much smaller hands than me...

 

[Y100 Motors]

How did you even fit your hand and wrench/socket to access the upper inside bracket bolt? I mean, without getting your hand all scraped & bloody lol
Especially with aftermarket brackets, access to the bolt is even harder. I guess you guys have much smaller hands than me...

Very carefully. I actually do have somewhat small hands, but more importantly I have quite supple and robust wrists thanks to a decade and a half of drumming. Still didn't save my hands from all the scraping you described though.😓

 

[reeves]

Very carefully. I actually do have somewhat small hands, but more importantly I have quite supple and robust wrists thanks to a decade and a half of drumming. Still didn't save my hands from all the scraping you described though.😓

I envy you then, I'm just the opposite.. smallish wrists with large hands. Not the best for leveraging stubby ratchets in tight spots... or slipping out of hand cuffs. I mean, at least that's what I've heard.

 

[CerealKiller]

The OEM setup doesn't angle as much, but it still angles downward.

The amount of gap you have is the same amount I had too with my OEM springs/shocks. With lowered springs, the gap isn't as bad... the lower you go, the less downward angle you'll have.

Here's how the angle looks on OEM springs/shocks, compared to Racing Beat springs + Koni shocks. Didn't take any pics when I put the H&R springs on, but the RSB was pushed even higher, closer to 90-degree with the endlinks.

The stock RSB is closer to the angle of the bar with RB springs.

View attachment 278508


View attachment 278509

This looks correct. Even the mounting points for the brackets that hold down the RSB angle downward; with the top mounting point sitting higher than the bottom one.

I plan on taking a look at mine later today to see if any adjustments are needed.
CK

 

[sccaracer75years]

UPDATE... I did it without removing any control arm bolts! Alignment is intact. The biggest detractor was the upper / inner nuts due to the gussets on the ProgressAuto brackets... But it's done! I installed Moog endlinks at all four corners as well just to have the beefier pieces there.

 

[Y100 Motors]

UPDATE... I did it without removing any control arm bolts! Alignment is intact. The biggest detractor was the upper / inner nuts due to the gussets on the ProgressAuto brackets... But it's done! I installed Moog endlinks at all four corners as well just to have the beefier pieces there.

Those brackets are just a bitch aren't they? Welcome to the Exalted Brotherhood of the Untouched Control Arm!

 

[arathol]

If you are replacing the rear bar, you need to remove the springs and shocks. Once those are out of the way the mounting bracket nuts are quite easily accessible and the bar can be changed without issues. To remove the springs you need to disconnect the outer end of the lower control arm from the hub, but that should not cause any alignment issues.

 

[sccaracer75years]

If you are replacing the rear bar, you need to remove the springs and shocks. Once those are out of the way the mounting bracket nuts are quite easily accessible and the bar can be changed without issues. To remove the springs you need to disconnect the outer end of the lower control arm from the hub, but that should not cause any alignment issues.

See posts 360, 363, and 373.

Thanks though!

 

[sccaracer75years]

Those brackets are just a bitch aren't they? Welcome to the Exalted Brotherhood of the Untouched Control Arm!

Thanks! The ones closer to the rear bumper were easy. It's the two inners... While the deep socket fits with no problem, the caveat is that you can't get a ratchet on that socket because it hits the body. I had to get creative with tightening it down. Let's just say it's a good thing those nuts only require 35lbs. or so of torque. LOL!

 

[arathol]

See posts 360, 363, and 373.

Thanks though!

Yeah I read them more than once.......and the part about the alignment is still incorrect every time I read it....Disconnecting the outer end of the LCA does not affect the alignment. I've done this more than once and there has never been a need for changing the alignment after.

Thanks! The ones closer to the rear bumper were easy. It's the two inners... While the deep socket fits with no problem, the caveat is that you can't get a ratchet on that socket because it hits the body. I had to get creative with tightening it down. Let's just say it's a good thing those nuts only require 35lbs. or so of torque. LOL!

For those who haven't bothered to do the research on how to change the rear bar the hard way (not removing anything) the best way to access the bracket bolts is using a 1/4" drive ratchet with a swivel head. Getting them retorqued can easily be accomplished with a small swivel head torque wrench.

And just in case anybody else is reading this before doing a bar swap, the proper torque specs for the bracket nuts is 16-19 ft/lbs, not 35......

 

[sccaracer75years]

Yeah I read them more than once.......and the part about the alignment is still incorrect every time I read it....Disconnecting the outer end of the LCA does not affect the alignment. I've done this more than once and there has never been a need for changing the alignment after.


And just in case anybody else is reading this before doing a bar swap, the proper torque specs for the bracket nuts is 16-19 ft/lbs, not 35......

As for the alignment, if the Mazda3 had spherical bearings/bushings everywhere, I'd absolutely, 110% agree with you. But rubber bushings, especially relative to the entire corner of the car in the rear (with its what? 8 or more bushings per corner?) have bind and are under tension. Also, did you get a laser alignment before the work and then immediately after to see if specs changed, even a little? A 1/32" of toe here and there matters in what I do with cars.

As for the torque spec... Cool! I must have been going off memory of what a 14mm nut is usually torqued to (think: upper strut mount nuts).

 

[CerealKiller]

Thanks! The ones closer to the rear bumper were easy. It's the two inners... While the deep socket fits with no problem, the caveat is that you can't get a ratchet on that socket because it hits the body. I had to get creative with tightening it down. Let's just say it's a good thing those nuts only require 35lbs. or so of torque. LOL!

A mid-length socket was my savior. Allows you to fit a socket wrench on top of it, but just barely...

Some people say to drop the subframe to tighten those two nuts. It gives you better access. I may try that if I ever need to work on it again.
CK