[curvyroads28]

To all who have adjustable rear camber kits:

What choice did you make for your rear camber adjusting needs? Has anybody tried the Moog (p/n 100303) or SPC (p/n 67415) rear camber/toe kit with the toe arm and extended arm bolt adjuster? What is the true range of adjustment? Does it REALLY provide +/- 3 degrees of camber adjustment??

I ordered the Moog kit (its basically the same as the SPC kit, I think it even has SPC stamped on the arms). I should be installing it in a couple weeks and if I feel patient enough that day, I might do a little write-up on it. I liked the idea of easier access for adjustment and adjusting toe by rotating the wheel inward at the bottom instead of outward at the top where it will creep closer to the fender. I haven't read or seen much about people using this particular style of kit, anybody out there use it?

 

[Tippmann98]

Would like to see an install write up - can't find one on here anywhere. I did one on my 2008 but just got a 2014 and am curious if it's similar.

 

[arathol]

Turned out to be a pain to install as the inner arm-to-subfame bolts were inserted from the outside prior to the subfame being installed

 

[curvyroads28]

Turned out to be a pain to install as the inner arm-to-subfame bolts were inserted from the outside prior to the subfame being installed

Last I looked, I would have to drop the sub frame down in order to gain access to those bolts. Is this what you experienced? I ended up going with the Moog (SPC) lower arm and camber bolt kit. Once I dial in my camber, I will most likely have to push the rear wheels out with spacers to get them back to where they should be, but I do like the ease of access to the adjusting arms. I did a quick string-up alignment to get my toe in order, once I finish dialing in my suspension I will re-adjust toe and go to work on camber then find the proper spacers to push the wheels back out. Thanks for sharing those images @arathol. I may yet decide to go with a different camber adjustment setup depending on how I feel after making final adjustments with the Moog kit.

 

[squelchy451]

Effects on handling with these? How much rear camber did you gain?

 

[curvyroads28]

Effects on handling with these? How much rear camber did you gain?

I haven't had a chance to do a true, full alignment. Just the quick string job to fix the toe. I am still making changes to the suspension, including an upgrade to the front springs. Once I get a chance to let everything settle in, i will have an update.

One thing I can tell you for sure is that I will need a spacer in the rear to compensate and square up the wheels as the entire hub will be pulled inward once camber is tuned.

 

[arathol]

Last I looked, I would have to drop the sub frame down in order to gain access to those bolts. Is this what you experienced?

Yeah, you need to lower the subframe to get them out. You can't even reverse the bolts to make it easier as there is a captive nut on the frame..:frown2:

I am still making changes to the suspension, including an upgrade to the front springs.

What are you doing with the front springs?

 

[curvyroads28]

You can't even reverse the bolts to make it easier as there is a captive nut on the frame..:frown2:

That is what I figured, very unfortunate.

What are you doing with the front springs?

Upgrading to Swifts in a shorter length (152mm). They provided me with 180mm front springs which isn't short enough to allow full height adjustment with the shorter shocks. I'm not slamming it, but I would rather retain SOME option to lower it a bit more if I deemed it necessary. I am also curious as to how much of a difference the Swifts will make in traction, as braking over poor road terrain tends to cause a lot of skipping with the 12k fronts. Upgraded bushings on all suspension components would also need to be added to control this better, but as Swift claims faster spring rebound for better traction, I would like to see at least some improvement.

Once i have gotten everything at a place where I am satisfied, I will do a full, tuned alignment and corner balance.

 

[arathol]

Hmmm...I see.
Thats what, almost 5x the OEM rate? Is it possible that maybe you just aren't getting enough weight transfer to the front when braking? Have you changed the F/R spring rate ratio much? Are the dampers up to controlling those spring rates on such an uneven surface? Just throwing out some other possibilities to consider.....:dunno:

 

[curvyroads28]

All very valid concerns! It isn't a weight transfer issue, it is more so a REALLY crappy road issue. On average to good road surfaces, stopping is totally predictable. It is more just the bad surface (something equivalent to a rough railroad crossing) being amplified by the 12k springs. Even on my old Bilstein b14 coilovers i would experience this to some degree, just not quite as severe. The shocks handle fast undulations and bumps very well (again, average to good roads). I also have yet to play with the damper stiffness much, I do tend to keep them on the stiffer side which obviously doesn't help.

As far as the ratio, I did narrow it a bit with 10k in the rear (compared to the standard BC BR setup with a 3k gap), but in my experience, I prefer driving a front wheel drive car with a slightly looser rear. This coming from actual track experience. This car is still new to me and I havn't had a chance to track it just yet, so I havn't been able to feel it out under proper conditions. Either way, since I was in need of shorter springs, I figured doing the upgrade couldn't hurt. And the unsprung weight savings is always a plus (really curious to see what the difference will be there).

 

[arathol]

Ha, yeah that would do it. Washboards and 12k springs don't mix well.... :smile2:

 

[arathol]

Thinking a bit more on this, is it possible that the dampers are handling compression better than rebound, or vice versa, and are jacking themselves either up or down on the rough surface, resulting in poor response? Maybe turning the settings down a few clicks would help?

 

[curvyroads28]

Would like to see an install write up - can't find one on here anywhere. I did one on my 2008 but just got a 2014 and am curious if it's similar.

Sorry Tippmann98... The initial install day didn't go well as I had discovered that the shocks and springs provided were not short enough to compensate for the 10k /12k spring rates and I ended up installing the camber kit in a bad mood as I wound up putting the old suspension back on, and therefore I didn't end up taking any pictures. The kit install is very straightforward and I will most likely be under the car again this weekend so I can take some pictures and do a quick write-up. Nothing too complicated though.

Thinking a bit more on this, is it possible that the dampers are handling compression better than rebound, or vice versa, and are jacking themselves either up or down on the rough surface, resulting in poor response? Maybe turning the settings down a few clicks would help?

Absolutely. The rebound is definitely not planting the tires back down as well as it should. Another reason I am looking forward to installing the Swifts which just came today. They are incredibly light, and thin! If I didn't know any better i would think these springs couldn't be stiffer than 3 or 4kg/mm judging by the thickness of the wire. Supposedly these springs will rebound more effectively so we will see if I can balance it better with the shocks. Hopefully I should have these installed this weekend.

 

[curvyroads28]

Update:

Swift springs feel fantastic. There is a difference in performance that can be felt. Did some further adjustments with the camber kit including some rough camber tweaks and tighter toe adjustments. Adjustments are incredibly easy even with the car sitting on the ground, only difference is that the camber adjustment affects toe which then has to be adjusted afterwards.

One strange thing to note, after lifting up the back of the car to re-torque bolts and make shock length adjustments, the right side now sits about 1/2" higher than the left side, which it used to be even with. I didn't change any spring heights. Just lengthened the shock to allow for more droop and reduce pre-load. I have heard of it happening before but never experienced it myself on any cars I have worked on and have no idea how it happened. Anybody have any ideas on this?

 

[arathol]

Sounds like you torqued the bolts with the suspension at full droop? The bushings don't move much and twist with suspension movement. If the bolts are torqued with no load on the suspension, the bushings will be twisted and uneven when loaded. Put the car on ramps, loosen up the suspension bolts and re torque with the suspension loaded normally. That might solve the problem as long as everything else is right.

 

[curvyroads28]

Sounds like you torqued the bolts with the suspension at full droop? The bushings don't move much and twist with suspension movement. If the bolts are torqued with no load on the suspension, the bushings will be twisted and uneven when loaded. Put the car on ramps, loosen up the suspension bolts and re torque with the suspension loaded normally. That might solve the problem as long as everything else is right.

I thought about that, but I had the car down the whole time I was doing the alignment (part of the advantage I found with going with the Moog / SPC lower camber arm!). I lifted the car to break torque on the camber arms, lowered the car back down, rolled it back and forth to take any torque off the bushings, took measurements, broke torque on the toe bolts (still barely enough space to crawl under the car and loosen the bolts), made adjustments on camber and toe, measured again, then re-torqued everything. So in short... I wish that had been the issue.

This was also the case with my previous suspension setup (bilstein b14). The passenger rear was always 1/4" higher than the left. I have a feeling that the difference is simply exacerbated with the stiffer springs. Although I swear it was equal before. Guess the camber correction might have made things more obvious. My mistake? A corner balance will sort everything out.

 

[dturro88]

Yeah, you need to lower the subframe to get them out. You can't even reverse the bolts to make it easier as there is a captive nut on the frame..:frown2:

@arathol i am right now looking at my car and the megan racing camber arms on my table, trying to decide whether i should install them now (myself) or not, is tempting :grin2:,
Can i go at it without an impact gun? If i can, i will stop the hesitation and go for it today or tomorrow.

 

[CerealKiller]

I plan on doing it myself...I'm just trying to persuade myself into doing it. Gonna be a lot of work...
CK

 

[dturro88]

I plan on doing it myself...I'm just trying to persuade myself into doing it. Gonna be a lot of work...
CK

Same here, but man....not very motivated since we must partially drop the subframe. At home this is challenging, give me ramp and no problem. Arathol give us some light here haha

 

[CerealKiller]

I'm gonna take the family out for lunch and some shopping. I'll hopefully get some beer and just throw myself at it afterwards.. If my car wasn't driving so well, I'd be far more motivated to do this.
CK