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Led bulbs don't belong in projectors.
Why? Please explain this so I will know why my LED projectors are not supposed to work. How do I fix mine so that they don't work?

A $9 halogen bulb won't make a noticeable difference. I have tried what are said to be better grades of halogen bulbs. The difference is minimal, the cost isn't.
 

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Why? Please explain this so I will know why my LED projectors are not supposed to work. How do I fix mine so that they don't work?

A $9 halogen bulb won't make a noticeable difference. I have tried what are said to be better grades of halogen bulbs. The difference is minimal, the cost isn't.
I said LED bulbs in projectors do not work. The mazda 3 with LED low beams from Factory comes with an LED chip, not a replaceable bulb. It then has a reflector built around the chip's output.

Led pnp bulbs always give forground (which you don't want). Well for ground looks good in pictures, because there is so much light in the picture, it is in the wrong place. You want to have it 100 feet down the road. They are also not very wide, this is why they have the nickname of pencil beams, there is no whip and you can't see things to the side of the road.

There's a comparison of an h-11 and an H9. They are in my own personal car, I don't even run HIDs, and I have 5 dozen of them sitting in my basement.

Much more intense Hotspot, in the right location.
 

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Led pnp bulbs always give forground (which you don't want). Well for ground looks good in pictures, because there is so much light in the picture, it is in the wrong place. You want to have it 100 feet down the road. They are also not very wide, this is why they have the nickname of pencil beams, there is no whip and you can't see things to the side of the road.
That is absolutely wrong. It may have been the thinking a couple years ago but the new generation of LEDs work just fine. When used in the halogen low beam projector box in the 3, the light pattern is the same as the halogen, just brighter. The throw is the same, but again, the light is brighter and sharper. The cutoff is well defined and at the correct height, and that cutoff is maintained all the way out to the end of the throw. The shoulder of the road is well illuminated. They function exactly the same as the OEM halogens but somewhat brighter with a light that has a much more white color. I don't see the issue here.

Sharp low beam cut off, very little light above the horizontal centers
I would not call this a "pencil beam"


Sharp cut off line extends all the way out on both sides
Note that the car on the grass is illuminated only up to the bottom of the window, no bright light entering the passenger compartment
You can see a utility pole in the distance. Its about 400' up the road.
 

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That is absolutely wrong. It may have been the thinking a couple years ago but the new generation of LEDs work just fine. When used in the halogen low beam projector box in the 3, the light pattern is the same as the halogen, just brighter. The throw is the same, but again, the light is brighter and sharper. The cutoff is well defined and at the correct height, and that cutoff is maintained all the way out to the end of the throw. The shoulder of the road is well illuminated. They function exactly the same as the OEM halogens but somewhat brighter with a light that has a much more white color. I don't see the issue here.

Sharp low beam cut off, very little light above the horizontal centers
I would not call this a "pencil beam"


Sharp cut off line extends all the way out on both sides
Note that the car on the grass is illuminated only up to the bottom of the window, no bright light entering the passenger compartment
You can see a utility pole in the distance. Its about 400' up the road.
You have no Hotspot, a hot spot is what let's you see further down the road. Even halogen reflectors have a hot spot.
 

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You have no Hotspot, a hot spot is what let's you see further down the road. Even halogen reflectors have a hot spot.
If by that you mean the light is distributed at full intensity across the road instead of your "pencil beam" in the middle, then yes there is no "hotspot". Its because the light is distributed in the reflector differently.

 

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If by that you mean the light is distributed at full intensity across the road instead of your "pencil beam" in the middle, then yes there is no "hotspot". Its because the light is distributed in the reflector differently.

"Differently" is actually supposed to say "incorrectly"

So because you don't believe me that I'm right, I went and asked for "constructive criticism" on your output on the Facebook group "Headlight Junkies" who are all about getting the maximum performance out of their headlights. I didn't say that they were LED bulbs, because all that will do is have everyone tell you to take them out, and that's not what I was after (because I already know that). This is what they had to say.

In summary though.
1. "Short on distance"
2. Guy thought I was joking, because he knows I know lights, and I wouldn't have output this bad
3. "Doesn't look great. No light distribution, width sucks, doesn't look like there's light along your cut off (aka, no hotspot)
4. Looks like fog lights.
5. Looks like pod lights used for ditch lights
6. Is this from your vacuum cleaner?
7. Kinda dim.
8. No hotspot, too much foreground, fog lights would have been better.

I don't know how much more work I have to do to explain to you that leds do not belong in projector headlights. Unless your headlights come from the factory with a led CHIP, and the projector designed around that CHIP, leds do not belong in low beam projectors OR reflectors.






 

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Its not incorrect at all. Fact is, the lights are the OEM projectors and it all it takes is a proper light source to make them work. As the LEDs currently in the housing are the same dimensions as the OEM halogen bulbs, they function exactly the same except they are brighter and whiter. The light pattern is the same as OEM except there is somewhat less vertical scatter because the emitters are on the sides of the bulb housing, no light going upwards like a 360° filament would produce.
400' + isn't enough distance? There is more than enough illumination on the road in front of the car even past that.
Full width coverage of the travel lane (at full illumination no less, no "bright pencil beam in the middle" with weak coverage every where else) and well into the shoulder isn't wide enough? You don't want (or need) to put any more light into the oncoming lane than is necessary.
Yes, the lowbeam pattern is similar to fog lights, thats how they are supposed to be. No super bright light going where it is not supposed to go, ie into the rear view mirror of the car in front of you or into the eyes of the guy driving the car coming towards you. Anybody who thinks its ok to just blast as much light as possible in every direction is not doing it right, no matter how high of an opinion they have of themselves.
Headlight junkies? Really? Those are no doubt the idiots who drive around with 4 set of those bright blue lights on, with zero clue on how to aim them properly, blinding oncoming traffic. Somebody needs to learn its not about how much output you can get, its where the light goes thats important.
Dood, chekit owt, like my lights are reaallly brite bro!!:laughing001:
:rice 1:​
Tell them 1980 called. They want their pencil beam headlights back. You need to get with the times and move into the 21st century. You are still working with (and selling apparently?) antiquated technology. HIDs and halogens will soon be a thing of the past. LEDs are the way to go.
 

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OK, an update. It seems there was some questions about the pictures being low quality cell phone shots so I got out the camera took some pictures that are far more representative of the actual view at night
No beams-


High beams-


Low beams-


In case you are wondering, that shed in the distance is almost 500' out.
Pentax K-X, old school SMC Pentax Asahi M 1:2 50mm lens, f/0, shutter speed 1/20, ISO 6400. The camera sets the exposure parameters for optimum accuracy. What you see is what you get when you hit the button.
Any more questions about how LEDs don't work in projectors or reflector boxes?
 

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OK, so what is it ?? :dunno:
Pencil beams suck..... No wait, you don't have pencil beams in the center, thats not right. You need big bright spots in the middle of your beam pattern to see farther.....
Your lights aren't bright and don't throw very far..... No wait, you have to point the car at a blank wall from 25' for a fair comparison....
So, just how does looking at a wall from 25' away tell you anything at all about how the light will actually perform at 250' or 500' or more? Well, it doesn't, not in the least. HIDs and halogens are dinosaurs.

Anyhow, 25' from the wall.....


 

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Well, your post with the pics 25ft from the wall didn't show on my phone. But now that I see it on my laptop, it has only confirmed what I've been saying.

I've really actually held myself back while "discussing" this with you. Especially after this little outburst.



Please, join this group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/389976441138867/ and post your pictures and ask for input. Feel free to post the responses to this page. Positive or Negative. I'll probably see it if you do post, but I won't post to direct them on way or the other. Infact, you shouldn't even mention that you have led bulbs. Just ask what their opinion of your output is, and if they can guess what type of bulb you're running.
It's 31,000 members strong, including over 2 dozen retrofitting companies big and small, and is owned by The Retrofit Source, the largest aftermarket lighting company in North America, all who are striving for the best output. Contrary to your outbust, no one wants blue hids blinding oncoming traffic, almost all will recommend a 4300k oem grade bulb from philips or osram.

If you choose not to, I will take that as a sign that you truly don't want opinions from others, including top retrofitters from across North America, and are just here to throw around your "moderator" weight.
 

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Well, your post with the pics 25ft from the wall didn't show on my phone. But now that I see it on my laptop, it has only confirmed what I've been saying.
Which is what exactly? You keep changing your mind as to what is good and bad...
The pictures of the results speak for themselves.
Where are your pictures?
It's 31,000 members strong, including over 2 dozen retrofitting companies big and small, and is owned by The Retrofit Source, the largest aftermarket lighting company in North America, all who are striving for the best output. Contrary to your outbust, no one wants blue hids blinding oncoming traffic, almost all will recommend a 4300k oem grade bulb from philips or osram.
And as owners of a business they will promote whatever inventory they have on hand, or in their basement as the case may be. If they have 1000 units of Osram HID kits on hand they sure aren't going to tell you that the current generation of LEDs are better.

Please, join this group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/389976441138867/ and post your pictures and ask for input.
If you choose not to, I will take that as a sign that you truly don't want opinions from others, including top retrofitters from across North America, and are just here to throw around your "moderator" weight.
Sorry, but so far I have been able to exist without Facebook and have no intentions of joining just to placate you. Social media is not real life contrary to what you might have read on the internet.

As for the moderator comment, I have not mentioned that one time in the context of this thread, and only brought it up when you started the name calling, which is a clear violation of forum rules.
 

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Which is what exactly? You keep changing your mind as to what is good and bad...
The pictures of the results speak for themselves.
Where are your pictures?
My mind has never changed as to what's good and bad. Leds, and in particular, the leds you keep pushing, are bad.


I don't have a picture in the outdoors, because I only have a 2nd gen, and it's not the same.
However, here is a 3rd gen with stock h11 bulb.
It's not the best picture, because I wasn't planning on sharing it, but it gets the point across.

Even the stock bulb has a hotspot. As I've said before, the hotspot is what shines the light down the road, specifically to see into the distance, without it, you have no "penetrating power" and your light just kind of dies off. It's important to have, and it's one the requirements that headlights have in order to pass DOT certification.
Yours in this picture here, do not have a hotspot.

This is an instant fail for me, and wouldn't come close to passing DOT certification. (We will not be getting into the face that any bulb modification is against DOT certification, we're only talking about which bulb and or retrofit improves upon what DOT has passed.

So, on to my pictures. I've gone a step further, and not just changed the bulb to HID, but I've also swapped the projector to a HID compatible projector. This means the bowl has a UV resistant coating, and the projector was specfically designed for a D2S Bulb, in this case, it's an aftermarket replica of the TL from Acura, one of the best projectors.


This gives us an output like this from 1 projector

And to compare apples to apples, this is at 25 feet away.

See how the hotspot is maintained, where yours has all but disappeared? That's what allows you to see far. And the greater the lumens at the center of your hotspot, the better your distance will be.

As for width, I can't really say about that because I don't have stock projectors. But leds do not provide width, infact the usually (and in this case, they have been confirmed to) take away width.

Here is a nice example of width, and maintained hotspot.




And as owners of a business they will promote whatever inventory they have on hand, or in their basement as the case may be. If they have 1000 units of Osram HID kits on hand they sure aren't going to tell you that the current generation of LEDs are better.
There's 2 dozen owners, but 30,000 members, and owners cannot push their own products. Part of the group rules. Many stock leds, but only because if they don't, suckers will just buy it from the guy down the road and they'll be out $120.


Sorry, but so far I have been able to exist without Facebook and have no intentions of joining just to placate you. Social media is not real life contrary to what you might have read on the internet.

As for the moderator comment, I have not mentioned that one time in the context of this thread, and only brought it up when you started the name calling, which is a clear violation of forum rules.
Social media can be real life when you're discussing things with your fellow enthusiasts and allows you to meet people north america wide, and experience the world, outside of the opinions you dig yourself into. Your eyes can be opened by talking to others.

You haven't mentioned moderator in this thread, but you did ban me for a week because I said leds have no place is low beams before, and that your output was bad. And I didn't call anyone a name. If you'd like proof, you can reinstate that post you banned me for and deleted and that will be my proof.


Finally, here's a comparison of halogen vs led vs hid in a stock h11 projector in a subi.

Led adds no width, and loses all Hotspot. And if needed, we can replicate this again and again


and with that, I bid you adiue
 

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My mind has never changed as to what's good and bad. Leds, and in particular, the leds you keep pushing, are bad.
Inability to accept change and adapt....thats what happened to the dinosaurs.


I don't have a picture in the outdoors, because I only have a 2nd gen, and it's not the same.
However, here is a 3rd gen with stock h11 bulb.
It's not the best picture, because I wasn't planning on sharing it, but it gets the point across.
A picture of a single bulb projected on a sheet, no context or meaning

Even the stock bulb has a hotspot. As I've said before, the hotspot is what shines the light down the road, specifically to see into the distance, without it, you have no "penetrating power" and your light just kind of dies off. It's important to have, and it's one the requirements that headlights have in order to pass DOT certification.
Yours in this picture here, do not have a hotspot.
There is a hotspot if you look closely. The term only refers to a point of maximum intensity, nothing more. It doesn't mean the rest of the beam has to be weak and virtually useless. The hotspot is used for focal testing, placing it at a couple degrees below the center line and checking for cut off. That picture shows a perfectly acceptable low beam pattern with good light dispersion, no dark spots and correct cut off.
As for "shining down the road", I'm pretty sure this isn't exactly "dying off"


This is what the law says here-
4. The headlamps, auxiliary lamps, or combinations of both of these, on any motor vehicle other than a motorcycle must be arranged so that the driver may control the selection between distributions of light projected to different elevations subject to specific limitations set forth in the law. There must be an uppermost distribution of light, or composite beam, aimed and of such intensity to show people and vehicles at a distance of at least 500 feet for all conditions. There must be a lowermost distribution of light aimed and of sufficient intensity to show people and vehicles at a distance of at least 100 feet ahead and, on a straight level road, none of the high intensity portion of the beam can be directed to strike the eyes of an approaching driver. (CGS § 14-96t)

5. Whenever a motor vehicle is being operated on a road or road shoulder during the times headlights are required, the driver must use a light distribution, or composite beam, directed high enough and of sufficient intensity to show people and vehicles at a safe distance ahead, but (1) when approaching an oncoming vehicle within 500 feet, the driver must adjust the lights so that glaring rays are not projected into the eyes of the oncoming driver and (2) when approaching within 300 feet of another vehicle from behind, the driver must use a distribution of light other than the uppermost distribution (i.e., low beam rather than high beam). (CGS § 14-96u)
Seeing as the building quite brightly illuminated is nearly 500' away, I think it meets the requirements.


So, on to my pictures......


This gives us an output like this from 1 projector

And to compare apples to apples, this is at 25 feet away.

See how the hotspot is maintained, where yours has all but disappeared? That's what allows you to see far. And the greater the lumens at the center of your hotspot, the better your distance will be.
I see a bright center with light that fades rapidly as you move away from the center. We're back to the pencil beams that were no good.

As for width, I can't really say about that because I don't have stock projectors. But leds do not provide width, infact the usually (and in this case, they have been confirmed to) take away width.





Once again, how much wider do you need? Full width of the road, with vertical cutoff, the shoulder on both sides in full illumination, even at nearly 500' away.
This picture shows very little functional beam width.
this is at 25 feet away.
There's 2 dozen owners, but 30,000 members, and owners cannot push their own products. Part of the group rules. Many stock leds, but only because if they don't, suckers will just buy it from the guy down the road and they'll be out $120.
Maybe not but as owners they can certainly influence a lot of people by talking down what they don't sell.

Social media can be real life when you're discussing things with your fellow enthusiasts and allows you to meet people north america wide, and experience the world, outside of the opinions you dig yourself into. Your eyes can be opened by talking to others.
And allowing yourself to be influenced by the group mentality that is social media is a fools errand.

You haven't mentioned moderator in this thread, but you did ban me for a week because I said leds have no place is low beams before, and that your output was bad. And I didn't call anyone a name. If you'd like proof, you can reinstate that post you banned me for and deleted and that will be my proof.
That is not the reason. Flaming is also against the rules, as is spamming by non-approved vendors.

Further discussion of moderation will be taken to PM or deleted. Period.
 

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I see we're talking about dinosaurs now.

I gave context, it's the output of a 2014 mazda 3 projector with stock bulb..

Hotspot is not focal spot, I've explained what it is.

Quoting the Highway Traffic Act (or whatever law you have where you are) is not the same thing as the requirements/laws for headlights to pass DOT certification to be allowed to leave the factory and be used.

We're not back to pencil beams, they're much wider than stock mazda 3, plus have the hotspot that, as I may remind you, is a desirable feature. A hotspot does not make it a pencil beam, nor take away from width. It adds extra intensity in the middle for distance. I don't know how many times I'll have to say that.

I'm done discussing this, if you leave this up and people can make decisions of Their Own. They will either choose to believe you or believe me. Kinda like how social media works. Unless, of course, that's just being influenced by a group mentality that you speak of....
Forums are a form of social media, except you're usually limited to one topic.
 

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Hotspot is not focal spot, I've explained what it is.
No, you explained what you think it is. Nobody said it was a focal point. Its the point of maximum intensity as measured by the meter. This point does not need to be well defined as in your pictures. The meter will find it if your eyes can't. Once located, that point is placed slightly below and to the right of the optical center on the test pattern to check for excess bright glare above the cut off line. Its the design of the horizontal plane of projected light that is important, not the bright spot in the middle.
If your lights have a "hotspot" of say 500 cp (or whatever number you choose) in the center with 200 cp at 10' from the center on both sides , and my lights have the same 500 cp in the center and 400 cp at 10' from the center on both sides, how is that any different, except my lights will produce more light across the board? In no way does it mean that my lights won't throw as far.

I gave context, it's the output of a 2014 mazda 3 projector with stock bulb..
output of 2016 Mazda 3 projector low beam with LED bulb
 

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Hi folks, new here and since the title of this 54-page thread is Official HID I figured I’d ask my question here.
My son’s 2010 Mazda 3 has factory HIDs with Adaptive Front Lighting System, AFS. The AFS stopped working and the warning light is blinking. I can’t find any info on the wiring diagram to help diagnose the problem. Are there fuses or relays specific to AFS? If they’re mechanically broken (I don’t think they are) will I need to crack open the housing to get at the mechanicals? Could I deactivate he blinking light if I decide not to fix AFS?
 
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