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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, when should we expect to get a preview of what's coming in the 2017 M3 refresh?

Didn't we get it about this time last year for the 2016 model?
 

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My local dealership told me their Mazda rep said info should come out sometime in Q1 2016.

I'm debating between a Mazda3 and the new Civic, but I'm waiting on 2017 information before I make my decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My local dealership told me their Mazda rep said info should come out sometime in Q1 2016.
Yes, and we have only three more weeks left in Q1 2016 . . .

I'm debating between a Mazda3 and the new Civic, but I'm waiting on 2017 information before I make my decision.
I was considering the new Civic because of things about the M3 that I don't like (i.e., poor outward visibility all around, low seating position) but the recall of 42,500 new Civics for potential catastrophic engine failure turned me off that option . . .
 

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The EX-Ts weren't recalled, which is what I'm interested in, so the engine recall doesn't concern me.

I also question the reliability of the rep's estimate.
 

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I'm expecting Mazdaspeed3 at the new york auto show. I like the new civic but the hatch has too much slope on it. I'd be afraid of closing the hatch on one of the laser fume extractors I carry around and breaking a window. The Mazda3 is perfect in that it doesn't suffer from this problem.
 

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I really don't think we're going to see any refresh for 2017 for the Mazda3. A refresh wouldn't exactly be something Mazda would promote by itself, nor really keep under tight wraps. Normally when they do a refresh, they pair it with some big news and are usually very open about it (2016 CX-5 & Mazda6). Everyone knew the refresh of those two vehicles were already occurring and pictures were already out before they were unveiled at the L.A. Autoshow in 2014.

2018 model year is probably more realistic for a Mazda 3 refresh (we'll probably see it unveiled in L.A. later this year). And then we probably won't see a brand new 3 until 2020.

This is all totally my opinion and has absolutely no factual basis. Simply just trying to read the minds and trends that Mazda has stuck to in the last few years.

As for the MazdaSpeed3, I'm still skeptical. Mazda has been all about turning a profit since they got divorced from Ford. And they've done a hell of a job doing so. Hiroshima and literally turned the entire company around from the disaster Ford caused. But they're not bashful about shutting the U.S. out too. We won't see the Mazda2 over here in the U.S. They freely admit that the demand for the Mazda2 in the U.S. is extremely limited and it doesn't make business sense to send them here, no matter how many people say they want them -- just cause someone says they want to see it doesn't mean they'll buy it. I mean hell, if they produce a MazdaSpeed3 and it ends up costing $40k, for those of us who want a Speed3, will we actually buy one. Or will that just be a pipedream? Demand for a vehicle doesn't mean the people demanding it will actually buy it; in fact, they rarely do. Quite honestly, I was shocked when they released a manual transmission for the 2.5 Mazda3 in 2015. They have shown to make some surprising moves, so don't take my comments for gospel.

Now it is interesting that they have the turbo CX-9 on its way. While the development cost to stick it in a 3 would be minimal, there is still cost associated with it. People aren't going to necessary beat the hell out of a CX-9. Mazda does know that people are going to beat the hell out of a Speed3. The stresses that engine would undergo in a Speed3 and very different from a CX-9 family cruiser. Those would all be things Mazda would need to consider.

I am a true Mazda geek and literally eyeball their every move. I just don't see the Speed3 happening yet. Too many new models coming out that have yet to be proven. What if the CX-9 flops? What if this wonderous CX-4 flops? Mazda will not be of the mindset to create niche vehicles just yet when their revenue stream hasn't been fully established. Once they get done rolling all of these new rides out and find out what kind of revenue is being produced, maybe then...

Again, most of that is simply my opinion, but an interesting frame of mind for those who don't necessarily understand the business side of what they're trying to do.
 

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I really don't think we're going to see any refresh for 2017 for the Mazda3. A refresh wouldn't exactly be something Mazda would promote by itself, nor really keep under tight wraps. Normally when they do a refresh, they pair it with some big news and are usually very open about it (2016 CX-5 & Mazda6). Everyone knew the refresh of those two vehicles were already occurring and pictures were already out before they were unveiled at the L.A. Autoshow in 2014.

2018 model year is probably more realistic for a Mazda 3 refresh (we'll probably see it unveiled in L.A. later this year). And then we probably won't see a brand new 3 until 2020.

This is all totally my opinion and has absolutely no factual basis. Simply just trying to read the minds and trends that Mazda has stuck to in the last few years.

As for the MazdaSpeed3, I'm still skeptical. Mazda has been all about turning a profit since they got divorced from Ford. And they've done a hell of a job doing so. Hiroshima and literally turned the entire company around from the disaster Ford caused. But they're not bashful about shutting the U.S. out too. We won't see the Mazda2 over here in the U.S. They freely admit that the demand for the Mazda2 in the U.S. is extremely limited and it doesn't make business sense to send them here, no matter how many people say they want them -- just cause someone says they want to see it doesn't mean they'll buy it. I mean hell, if they produce a MazdaSpeed3 and it ends up costing $40k, for those of us who want a Speed3, will we actually buy one. Or will that just be a pipedream? Demand for a vehicle doesn't mean the people demanding it will actually buy it; in fact, they rarely do. Quite honestly, I was shocked when they released a manual transmission for the 2.5 Mazda3 in 2015. They have shown to make some surprising moves, so don't take my comments for gospel.

Now it is interesting that they have the turbo CX-9 on its way. While the development cost to stick it in a 3 would be minimal, there is still cost associated with it. People aren't going to necessary beat the hell out of a CX-9. Mazda does know that people are going to beat the hell out of a Speed3. The stresses that engine would undergo in a Speed3 and very different from a CX-9 family cruiser. Those would all be things Mazda would need to consider.

I am a true Mazda geek and literally eyeball their every move. I just don't see the Speed3 happening yet. Too many new models coming out that have yet to be proven. What if the CX-9 flops? What if this wonderous CX-4 flops? Mazda will not be of the mindset to create niche vehicles just yet when their revenue stream hasn't been fully established. Once they get done rolling all of these new rides out and find out what kind of revenue is being produced, maybe then...

Again, most of that is simply my opinion, but an interesting frame of mind for those who don't necessarily understand the business side of what they're trying to do.
Mazda introduced a mid-cycle refresh every three years. Almost always. The 2017 model is that year. So in all likelihood there will be a refresh even if minor in nature (some trim pieces updated, maybe new headlamps (full LED like the uplevel 6 and CX-5?), slightly revised front/rear styling, a feature or two changed, etc.). All of the Skyactiv-chassis cars have followed the pattern so far.

I am inclined to agree with you on the MazdaSpeed 3. I'm remain skeptical about their willingness to do one for budgetary reasons at this time. The CX-9 shows they have a motor for it finally. That said, I was also very skeptical they'd ever do a Skyactiv turbo, especially since Mazda engineers claimed Skyactiv turbos were not possible when the first Skyactiv motors were introduced (I assumed they'd borrow the direct-injected variant of the 3.5L V6 from Toyota since Toyota owns a small stake in Mazda and they have the Mazda2 production agreement). So one never knows. I'm sure they'd like to do one.

Also, Ford didn't ruin Mazda at all or cause any "disaster." In all likelihood their 33% ownership for decades probably saved Mazda. Ford provided a lot of capital and insulation from global market forces during some very volatile currency shifts, Japanese recessions (which are perpetual) and so on. Ford benefited tremendously in return by learning how to build and engineer better cars. Both companies shared co-developed platforms that were world-class in nature and helped share costs. Ford also let Mazda do a lot autonomously (rotary engines, etc.) that Mazda probably couldn't have afforded to do otherwise. Mazda also learned how to do things like work within budgets, etc. (which they weren't good at before). Mazda's been on much more of a shoestring budget since the Ford divorce and what they've done with their engine and chassis technology is remarkable. And Ford needed to divorce Mazda to raise capital for themselves and save themselves in the late 2000s. It wasn't personal and they probably would have preferred to keep them. It was a good relationship.

Most of us are Mazda geeks. That's why we're here. ;)
 

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@PuMoDi

Thanks for the background on Ford. Very informative and well put.

I'm still skeptical on the refresh though. Here we are in March and still have no news about any refresh. Seems a little late in the game for a refresh. As we admit though, Mazda has surprised before!

Cheers!
 

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I was not aware of the cx-4 will have to do some searching, sounds interesting.

What I'd like to see is a CX-5 with the cx9 turbo engine to compete with the Forester XT, only allow the manual to be paired with it. No it would not sell like crazy, but there is definitely a group missing the old manual Forester XT that would pounce on it, even steal some BMW crossover buyers maybe. It's too bad the crossover segment has to heavily cater to non-enthusiasts to have a shot. Having a useful vehicle that is also fun to drive is a great thing...Having had a small taste (needs more power) with my Forester.
 

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Mazda introduced a mid-cycle refresh every three years. Almost always. The 2017 model is that year. So in all likelihood there will be a refresh even if minor in nature (some trim pieces updated, maybe new headlamps (full LED like the uplevel 6 and CX-5?), slightly revised front/rear styling, a feature or two changed, etc.). All of the Skyactiv-chassis cars have followed the pattern so far.

I am inclined to agree with you on the MazdaSpeed 3. I'm remain skeptical about their willingness to do one for budgetary reasons at this time. The CX-9 shows they have a motor for it finally. That said, I was also very skeptical they'd ever do a Skyactiv turbo, especially since Mazda engineers claimed Skyactiv turbos were not possible when the first Skyactiv motors were introduced (I assumed they'd borrow the direct-injected variant of the 3.5L V6 from Toyota since Toyota owns a small stake in Mazda and they have the Mazda2 production agreement). So one never knows. I'm sure they'd like to do one.

Also, Ford didn't ruin Mazda at all or cause any "disaster." In all likelihood their 33% ownership for decades probably saved Mazda. Ford provided a lot of capital and insulation from global market forces during some very volatile currency shifts, Japanese recessions (which are perpetual) and so on. Ford benefited tremendously in return by learning how to build and engineer better cars. Both companies shared co-developed platforms that were world-class in nature and helped share costs. Ford also let Mazda do a lot autonomously (rotary engines, etc.) that Mazda probably couldn't have afforded to do otherwise. Mazda also learned how to do things like work within budgets, etc. (which they weren't good at before). Mazda's been on much more of a shoestring budget since the Ford divorce and what they've done with their engine and chassis technology is remarkable. And Ford needed to divorce Mazda to raise capital for themselves and save themselves in the late 2000s. It wasn't personal and they probably would have preferred to keep them. It was a good relationship.

Most of us are Mazda geeks. That's why we're here. ;)

Very well put. I like it.

I want to think that a new speed 3 will depend on how well sales go. So far it seems Mazda is doing well with the new line up they have put out since the divorce. Fingers crossed for a new speed 3.

Either way I think I could rock my 2014 3 for many many years. Really like my ride. Would be nice to actually have a car paid off. But if the speed pops up it will be very tempting.
 

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Nope, it won't have the hourglass Lexus fascia, but it will get a new bumper; some mild revisions to headlamps, grille section, and fog lamp enclosures.
Apart from the thinner steering wheel spokes, The console on the Facelift may get a revised dual zone climate control switchgear that would resemble the system on the M6. Expect significant changes like having an electronic parking brake ala CX-5 instead of the old school e-brake lever, and the Commander Control unit and gear selector moving closer to the center console. There is that additional storage space from a new compartment w/ sliding lid.

The revised D-shaped steering wheel....


Let's see if the plate finally gets transferred.:)
 

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Mazda introduced a mid-cycle refresh every three years. Almost always. The 2017 model is that year. So in all likelihood there will be a refresh even if minor in nature (some trim pieces updated, maybe new headlamps (full LED like the uplevel 6 and CX-5?), slightly revised front/rear styling, a feature or two changed, etc.). All of the Skyactiv-chassis cars have followed the pattern so far.

I am inclined to agree with you on the MazdaSpeed 3. I'm remain skeptical about their willingness to do one for budgetary reasons at this time. The CX-9 shows they have a motor for it finally. That said, I was also very skeptical they'd ever do a Skyactiv turbo, especially since Mazda engineers claimed Skyactiv turbos were not possible when the first Skyactiv motors were introduced (I assumed they'd borrow the direct-injected variant of the 3.5L V6 from Toyota since Toyota owns a small stake in Mazda and they have the Mazda2 production agreement). So one never knows. I'm sure they'd like to do one.

Also, Ford didn't ruin Mazda at all or cause any "disaster." In all likelihood their 33% ownership for decades probably saved Mazda. Ford provided a lot of capital and insulation from global market forces during some very volatile currency shifts, Japanese recessions (which are perpetual) and so on. Ford benefited tremendously in return by learning how to build and engineer better cars. Both companies shared co-developed platforms that were world-class in nature and helped share costs. Ford also let Mazda do a lot autonomously (rotary engines, etc.) that Mazda probably couldn't have afforded to do otherwise. Mazda also learned how to do things like work within budgets, etc. (which they weren't good at before). Mazda's been on much more of a shoestring budget since the Ford divorce and what they've done with their engine and chassis technology is remarkable. And Ford needed to divorce Mazda to raise capital for themselves and save themselves in the late 2000s. It wasn't personal and they probably would have preferred to keep them. It was a good relationship.

Most of us are Mazda geeks. That's why we're here. ;)

There was a few Mazda horrors, the 5 speed manuals with weak spider gears and shift forks couldn't hold up to much and the F4EAT autotragic transmissions. But in general I agree the relationship was beneficial.
 
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