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Discussion Starter #1
I'm starting a carbon copy of the "Civic to the 3" topic where it lost to the Civic so I preserved the title format.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyota/corolla/2020/2020-toyota-corolla-vs-2019-mazda3-comparison-test-review/

They criticize again the rear torsion beam on the Mazda, the say that the 2.5l engine combined with AT6 on the Mazda feels more like the old 2l 155HP engine. They clearly didn't like the gearbox in the Mazda and prefer the CVT in the Corolla.

It's kinda surprising that the Corolla has a multi-link in the rear and Mazda3 doesn't.

I looked also over the sales numbers and it doesn't look good for the Mazda3: 26% drop in June 2019 and 20% drop YTD.
On the other hand, Corolla had 6.4% increase in June 2019 and 4.7% drop YTD.
Civic had a 3.4% drop YTD.

I think the new Mazda3 model doesn't do very well in sales; 20% drop when the competition has only 5-6% drop when you launch a new model is not inspiring.

Sales YTD:
  • Mazda3: 28k
  • Corola: 152k
  • Civic: 169k
 

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They criticize again the rear torsion beam on the Mazda, the say that the 2.5l engine combined with AT6 on the Mazda feels more like the old 2l 155HP engine. They clearly didn't like the gearbox in the Mazda and prefer the CVT in the Corolla.



It's kinda surprising that the Corolla has a multi-link in the rear and Mazda3 doesn't.
Mazda isn't alone in finding the gem in the beam.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/renault-details-megane-rs-trophy-r-the-purest-hot-hatch-of-them-all/amp/


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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I wonder if they are not biased against Mazda.

"The second row doesn't have enough legroom for my seating position, and I have less than an inch of free headroom. There's more space in the Corolla, especially in the rear, making it the superior carpooling sedan"

then if you look in the specs they provided:

LEGROOM, F/R
Mazda: 42.3/35.1 in
Corolla: 42.0/34.8 in

So, Mazda has more legroom both front and rear, measured, and they say the second row doesn't have enough.

They then fail to mention any advantage the Mazda has such as the fact that it got better acceleration in their test, better stopping distance (despite narrower tires) and better track numbers.
They also fail to mention the availability of AWD and also superior NVH. They said at the end that Mazda has less "tire noise" but there are also much less vibrations and harshness.

Even when Mazda had a slight advantage (trunk capacity) they said it's even.
"Trunk space is evenly matched, with the Corolla's measuring at 13.1 cubic feet versus the Mazda3's 13.2 cubic feet."

So when Mazda has an advantage, is evenly matched but when Toyota has lower measured leg-room they say "The second row doesn't have enough legroom".

And if you compare the legroom in the hatch version of each car, Mazda beats the Corolla hands down:

LEGROOM, F/R
Mazda: 42.3/35.1 in
Corolla: 42.0/29.9 in
 

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I'm starting a carbon copy of the "Civic to the 3" topic where it lost to the Civic so I preserved the title format.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyota/corolla/2020/2020-toyota-corolla-vs-2019-mazda3-comparison-test-review/

They criticize again the rear torsion beam on the Mazda, the say that the 2.5l engine combined with AT6 on the Mazda feels more like the old 2l 155HP engine. They clearly didn't like the gearbox in the Mazda and prefer the CVT in the Corolla.

It's kinda surprising that the Corolla has a multi-link in the rear and Mazda3 doesn't.

I looked also over the sales numbers and it doesn't look good for the Mazda3: 26% drop in June 2019 and 20% drop YTD.
On the other hand, Corolla had 6.4% increase in June 2019 and 4.7% drop YTD.
Civic had a 3.4% drop YTD.

I think the new Mazda3 model doesn't do very well in sales; 20% drop when the competition has only 5-6% drop when you launch a new model is not inspiring.

Sales YTD:
  • Mazda3: 28k
  • Corola: 152k
  • Civic: 169k
Holy cow!
New 3 appears to be a flop. Hope its doing better in other markets.
Only CX 5 is keeping Mazda afloat and that situation cannot persist for long.:frown2:
 

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The torsion beam rear suspension is killing the car design. I'm not sure why they went through such an expensive redesign of the suspension rather than just adding sound deadening. Yes the suspension is simpler, but it's going to suffer the similar fate that nissan did with the 350z, where any sort of bumpiness in the corners makes the rear unstable.
 

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The torsion beam rear suspension is killing the car design. I'm not sure why they went through such an expensive redesign of the suspension rather than just adding sound deadening. Yes the suspension is simpler, but it's going to suffer the similar fate that nissan did with the 350z, where any sort of bumpiness in the corners makes the rear unstable.
this cant be further from the truth.

fact of the matter is that 90%+ of mazda3 buyers dont know the difference between independent rear suspension and torsion beam, and wouldnt be able to tell you the difference after driving them back to back.

the 3 isnt a sports car, its an economy car first and foremost.

the 19s have been available for like 4 months in the US, and even its best years its barely cracked 120k sales per year, they only sold 65k 2018s last year...
 

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You can't really go by published interior legroom numbers...I sat in both the Corolla sedan and the new 3 sedan at the NY auto show, and the Corolla definitely felt much roomier. I think the 3 feels incredibly cramped, more so even than my 2018 3 hatch.

I need to drive it over a bumpy road and see if MotorTrend is full of crap...they've always struck me as much less reputable than Car & Driver and some other reviewers.
 

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Is the new twist beam rear axel really that bad? I’ve had this car for a month now and I’ve never been able to unsettle the rear end of the car on country roads in spirited driving. It drives like a European sports sedan. I traded in my ‘17 Honda Civic Hatch for this car and I feel that the handling is equal. MT seems to be very biased. For what it’s worth, I’ve owned several VW Golf’s with twist beam rear suspensions that were much different / worse than the Mazda. I like my Mazda and at the end of the day that’s all that matters. And after the Cylinder Deactivation software update the transmission is now silky smooth. It does not jerk or stutter anymore and I think it has plenty of power. MT journalists can sod off


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Is the new twist beam rear axel really that bad? I’ve had this car for a month now and I’ve never been able to unsettle the rear end of the car on country roads in spirited driving. It drives like a European sports sedan. I traded in my ‘17 Honda Civic Hatch for this car and I feel that the handling is equal. MT seems to be very biased. For what it’s worth, I’ve owned several VW Golf’s with twist beam rear suspensions that were much different / worse than the Mazda. I like my Mazda and at the end of the day that’s all that matters. And after the Cylinder Deactivation software update the transmission is now silky smooth. It does not jerk or stutter anymore and I think it has plenty of power. MT journalists can sod off


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Hmmmm...Mazda might be spending too much on product development & too lil on sponsorships & payola.
My '14 doesn't leave me wanting a current Civic nor Corolla, but the '19 BP 3 I can imagine myself in.

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Can you share links to further info?


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https://www.ovtuned.com/blogs/news/ovtune-dynamic-force-a25a-fks-engine-development
Toyotas 2.5L A25A-FKS Dynamic Force Engine. We're examining this engine under a microscope.
Thermal efficiency, Adaptive based Tune.. and Rated Power..
Is this truly a contender for Efficiency to Mazdas Skyactiv? SkyactivX?
We intend to find out.

just a summary of Toyota tech.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/201080326-tnga.html
13:1
 

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ok Mr. Ben, but the Toyota Corolla XSE hatch that they compared to the Mazda3 in that Motortrend link has (as its top engine option) a 2.0-liter with 169 hp and 151 lb-ft, coupled to a CVT.

I would suspect it would be harder to tune the Toyota 2.0 liter NA engine to best the Mazda 2.5 liter NA engine, but do tell...
 

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FWIW, Car and Driver's list of Best Sedans for 2019-20 lists the Civic and the 3, but not the Corolla.


https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g27227136/best-sedans/


How much weight do we give these “reviews” and recommendations when the articles erroneously list features that are missing or just plain wrong. In this case the above referenced article talks about Touchscreen infotainment.



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ok Mr. Ben, but the Toyota Corolla XSE hatch that they compared to the Mazda3 in that Motortrend link has (as its top engine option) a 2.0-liter with 169 hp and 151 lb-ft, coupled to a CVT.

I would suspect it would be harder to tune the Toyota 2.0 liter NA engine to best the Mazda 2.5 liter NA engine, but do tell...
sorry, I must have misread the engine from "Toyota 86", which does have the 2.5L.
 
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