[Mailmansgotmail]

Hello!

Question for M3TH owners, regarding spirited driving…

Some context, drove to tahoe for snowboarding, then drove back and went through some canyon roads for some spirited driving which was about 10 miles long of curvy windy roads. After these roads, went on the regular freeway for about 5 - 10 minutes, then got the low oil warning. Pulled over and checked the oil after leaving the car off for about 3 minutes. (Was in a rush so didn't wait 10 minutes for all the oil to trickle down to the oil pan) The level was about 1/4 ABOVE the MIN dot. So I added half a quart to be safe. Drove another 5 minutes to eat for about an hour and checked the oil again. It was now at the MAX dot.

Couple of things to note as well:

1. Did oil change 5 1/2 months ago, just hit 3k miles which is when I do my oils changes and was going to do after this trip. (I drive 95% city for 4 miles round trip in city stop and go traffic to get to the gym, so the car barely warms up, so I change it early to be safe.) For my oil changes I just do a full 5QT jug and call it a day, I know the turbo engines require 5.2QTs.
2. After my oil change the oil level always stays right at the middle between the MIN and MAX dot maybe a hair above middle.
3. I check my oil every two weeks and it has stayed right at the middle ever since I owned the car. (2 years, 13k miles)
4. My car is not within the TSB VIN for the valve stem seal issue.
5. Unfortunately I did not check my oil before my trip so the reading was about a week or two old.
6. 1 way to Tahoe is about 150+ miles if that matters. So total I put ~300 miles today.
7. Only mod I have on the car is Corksport Intake, everything else is stock.

My question is, would spirited driving cause a misreading of the oil level sensor? Especially 10 minutes after driving spirited (revs were around 3k - 5k for the duration in sports mode and most of the time my foot was not on the accelerator) then getting the oil light on the freeway? I know track use can cause oil starvation depending on the oil pan design, not sure if this is the case. I also know that spirited driving can cause oil burning which is considered normal, but the oil readings indicate I didn't lose any oil? I am assuming MIN Dot to MAX Dot is 1 QT of oil, since my oil was right at the middle and I added half a quart to reach the MAX dot. (Could be entirely wrong)

If anyone with more experience could let me know if they had a false reading or can explain if my thinking is wrong anywhere and if this is something I should bring to the dealer. Apologize for the long post and thank you in advance!

 

[CerealKiller]

I would get it checked, as anything oil related can lead to costly issues down the road. Document as much as possible: pic of the indicator, mileage, etc.

If you can read the codes, get a freeze frame of the data when the light was triggered.

Altitude does impact oil but I have done similar trips and was fine.
CK

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Could it be that the oil got hotter than normal, viscosity dropped, abnormally sensitive low oil pressure light triggered? Is there a separate oil level- versus low oil pressure warning light?

 

[Mailmansgotmail]

I would get it checked, as anything oil related can lead to costly issues down the road. Document as much as possible: pic of the indicator, mileage, etc.

If you can read the codes, get a freeze frame of the data when the light was triggered.

Altitude does impact oil but I have done similar trips and was fine.
CK

Would I need to take off my intake and put the OE intake back on to avoid "voiding" the warranty?

 

[Mailmansgotmail]

Could it be that the oil got hotter than normal, viscosity dropped, abnormally sensitive low oil pressure light triggered? Is there a separate oil level- versus low oil pressure warning light?

I was thinking that as well. The error I got was for a low oil level warning, not sure if the sensor reads both oil level & pressure. Does M3TH have an oil cooler? If it does, I would assume outside temp of 40F - 50F would cool the oil pretty well. I don't track my car at all so I wouldn't know how the M3THs handles these things.

 

[CerealKiller]

Would I need to take off my intake and put the OE intake back on to avoid "voiding" the warranty?

Shouldn't need to, but if you want to play it safe, it's a quick change.
CK

 

[JoeMini]

As @CerealKiller mentioned ... its under warranty ..have dealership check and document it.

Hot oil expands and will cling to more surface ...hence why the wait before checking oil level to give time to drop.
Spirited driving / track / with alot g-force will shift oil around and can trigger the low oil level.
( that can happen with a oil leak - if light stays on stop - )
Long interval spirited driving can over heat oil - cook it - burn it - also not good
Hence why when tracking we go for 30 min intervals so we can cool down / check oil / repeat.
If you plan alot of spirited /of tracking in future / add a oil cooler (It adds about .5-.8 litre more capacity)
and think about adding a temp & oil pressure gauge. Also upgrading to higher temp resistant oil
like Millers (has a detergent package like reg oils) - Millers CFS 0W30 NT+ Racing Oil

 

[danbfree]

The level was about 1/4 ABOVE the MIN dot. So I added half a quart to be safe. Drove another 5 minutes to eat for about an hour and checked the oil again. It was now at the MAX dot.

For my oil changes I just do a full 5QT jug and call it a day, I know the turbo engines require 5.2QTs.
2. After my oil change the oil level always stays right at the middle between the MIN and MAX dot maybe a hair above middle.

My question is, would spirited driving cause a misreading of the oil level sensor? Especially 10 minutes after driving spirited (revs were around 3k - 5k for the duration in sports mode and most of the time my foot was not on the accelerator) then getting the oil light on the freeway? I know track use can cause oil starvation depending on the oil pan design, not sure if this is the case. I also know that spirited driving can cause oil burning which is considered normal, but the oil readings indicate I didn't lose any oil?

I am assuming MIN Dot to MAX Dot is 1 QT of oil, since my oil was right at the middle and I added half a quart to reach the MAX dot. (Could be entirely wrong)

I can confirm via extensive Turbo FB group discussions that the min to max on these cars is only like 0.6-0.7 qts difference, and it will throw the low oil light at only about half a qt low (both of these are smaller levels than other cars, TBF, so it can be weird but why adding a half fully topped it). Also, yes, cornering hard for any extended period more than a minute or 2 can trigger the low oil warning if you are a little low already. For reference, I drive the snot out of my '22 and it has barely ever lost a drop changing it every 5k, so even driving hard shouldn't burn much at all, and I've never had my oil light come on.

Next time buy 2 jugs of oil, top off in full. The following oil change, buy one more new jug, use up the remainder of the old jug first and top with new jug and repeat. You should get 20+ oil changes before having to buy 2 jugs at a time again (technically 25 [.2 used to fully top x5= 1qt x 5=1 jug] but you might have to top off if you do burn a little). I know there is some cost up front, but very good full synthetic is less than $25/jug so it's worth it to keep it topped/full at all times if you are worried about throwing the check engine light, which I would be too, so this is what I do for peace of mind personally and it's easier to monitor oil consumption over time when starting at full on the dot after an OC.

Also, are you 100% sure your VIN doesn't fall under the TSB range? I believe it did get expanded later after the initial range was released. I believe ALL '21's and even some '22's are under the range now but I can't find the proof ATM...[/QUOTE]

 

[sandy]

......

Also, are you 100% sure your VIN doesn't fall under the TSB range? I believe it did get expanded later after the initial range was released. I believe ALL '21's and even some '22's are under the range now but I can't find the proof ATM...

[/QUOTE]

good thought

Here is the latest TSB on the subject - issued 31 Jan 23; includes many 21Ts made in Japan and 21Ts & 22Ts made in Mexico

 

[Mailmansgotmail]

Thanks all, I’m taking the car to the dealership to record the issue at least.

I plan on doing an oil change soon after and checking how much comes out. And yeah I’ll start filling the car up to the max mark to be safe.

Does you car take 5.2Q to hit MAX? I read it can take up to 5.4-.5Q

Also, I’m pretty sure my VINN doesn’t fall into the range. Last six is 312XXX and from the TSB it starts at 315204. I did buy the car in Feb 2021. Is there a way to determine when the car was produced?

EDIT: Nevermind found the manufacture date in the doorsill, 09/2020

 

[danbfree]

Thanks all, I’m taking the car to the dealership to record the issue at least.

I plan on doing an oil change soon after and checking how much comes out. And yeah I’ll start filling the car up to the max mark to be safe.

Does you car take 5.2Q to hit MAX? I read it can take up to 5.4-.5Q

Also, I’m pretty sure my VINN doesn’t fall into the range. Last six is 312XXX and from the TSB it starts at 315204. I did buy the car in Feb 2021. Is there a way to determine when the car was produced?

EDIT: Nevermind found the manufacture date in the doorsill, 09/2020

I actually thought it only takes 5.1 qt officially, so 5.2 could be more accurate to hit it right on the nose...

 

[Mailmansgotmail]

Update: Went to the dealer today and mazda tech line denied the valve seal repair since my car is out of the VIN list. They are going to just replace the oil level sensor.

Dumb question though, I was going to ask if they can measure how much oil comes out as I thought you would need to drain the oil in order to replace the sensor, but the service advisor said that wasn't needed as it is located else where, where draining the oil wasn't needed. Just curious of this but was this the case?

 

[sinistriel]

Update: Went to the dealer today and mazda tech line denied the valve seal repair since my car is out of the VIN list. They are going to just replace the oil level sensor.

Dumb question though, I was going to ask if they can measure how much oil comes out as I thought you would need to drain the oil in order to replace the sensor, but the service advisor said that wasn't needed as it is located else where, where draining the oil wasn't needed. Just curious of this but was this the case?

They are lying to you about not draining the oil. The level sensor is in the pan. Here are two excerpts from the service manual, draining the oil is the 4th step.

 

[Mailmansgotmail]

That’s what I thought too… I never heard of an oil sensor that’s wasn’t IN oil. But who knows? Thanks, I guess I get a free oil change then.

Expected them to just check the oil level and send me on my way, at least they are doing “something”?

 

[ZZDU]

If they are lying, a possible reason could be that they want to reuse the old oil?
So I'd be asking them for a "please explain" if the service manual contradicts the way they are replacing it.

 

[arathol]

If they are lying, a possible reason could be that they want to reuse the old oil?
So I'd be asking them for a "please explain" if the service manual contradicts the way they are replacing it.

If they are lying, its probably because they are incompetent or lazy and just didn't want to do it....Most people wouldn't even question it and carry on as if the work had been done as claimed.....

 

[Mailmansgotmail]

Update:

Got the car back and they replaced the oil sensor, and did an oil change w/oil filter. So the service advisor probably didn't know anything. Weird thing is, he told me if the light came back to NOT put oil in and bring the car back.... now why would I let my car be low on oil? Am I missing something?

They also over filled the oil about half a cm over the full mark which may not be an issue but I ended up just doing another oil change anyways to get it exactly to the full mark to monitor it through the months and to use the oil I prefer.

Seems like the service advisor is spewing some bs.

 

[danbfree]

Update:

Got the car back and they replaced the oil sensor, and did an oil change w/oil filter. So the service advisor probably didn't know anything. Weird thing is, he told me if the light came back to NOT put oil in and bring the car back.... now why would I let my car be low on oil? Am I missing something?

They also over filled the oil about half a cm over the full mark which may not be an issue but I ended up just doing another oil change anyways to get it exactly to the full mark to monitor it through the months and to use the oil I prefer.

Seems like the service advisor is spewing some bs.

Yep, that is what Mazda is mandating now, they won't even accept a video of the low oil warning and showing your mileage and the level of the dip stick when the code is even stored for them to see. This has been confirmed by numerous people on the "Mazda 3 Turbo 2021+" group on FB. It has been a great resource with some really knowledgeable people there, it's worth having a basic private account just for some of the hobby groups... So even without the low oil issue on my '22 I noticed they over-filled mine too, also about 5mm/1/5" but figured that little amount wouldn't hurt. But still, l decided to do my own changes with full synthetic after that and not use them for maintenance any more (even with 1 free oil change to use) and only if/when warranty stuff comes up.

 

[Mailmansgotmail]

Yep, that is what Mazda is mandating now, they won't even accept a video of the low oil warning and showing your mileage and the level of the dip stick when the code is even stored for them to see. This has been confirmed by numerous people on the "Mazda 3 Turbo 2021+" group on FB. It has been a great resource with some really knowledgeable people there, it's worth having a basic private account just for some of the hobby groups... So even without the low oil issue on my '22 I noticed they over-filled mine too, also about 5mm/1/5" but figured that little amount wouldn't hurt but I still l decided to do my own changes with full synthetic after that and not use them for maintenance any more (even with 1 free oil change to use) and only if/when warranty stuff comes up.

I get that, but the code gets stored into the cars computer & the MyMazda app. That's how they pulled the code last time. Why put unnecessary risk of damaging the engine, especially when the next appointment is a week out. Thanks I'm in the 4th gen Mazda FB group but I'll look for the turbo specific one.

 

[arathol]

Update:

Got the car back and they replaced the oil sensor, and did an oil change w/oil filter. So the service advisor probably didn't know anything. Weird thing is, he told me if the light came back to NOT put oil in and bring the car back.... now why would I let my car be low on oil? Am I missing something?

They also over filled the oil about half a cm over the full mark which may not be an issue but I ended up just doing another oil change anyways to get it exactly to the full mark to monitor it through the months and to use the oil I prefer.

Seems like the service advisor is spewing some bs.

When you add oil before taking it back, they can't see if there is a problem or what the problem might be. If the oil level is low enough to damage the engine there is more than a problem with the sensor. If the light comes on again, just check the oil, make sure the engine has oil in it, and take it to the dealer.
Over filling by a small amount, less than 1/4" on the stick as you noted, is common and not a problem. The dealer usually fills from bulk containers. They don't exactly have laboratory grade graduated decanters to measure the oil that goes in to the engine. This is one of those times when "close enough" is good enough.