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2019 Mazda 3 Hatchback AWD 2.5G
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Dropped the car at the dealership yesterday, they did a diagnostics and the conclusion was: "looks like the part is starting to fail and we have ordered a replacement under warranty".
The good part is that my coolant control valve will be replaced again (and hopefully with the improved version); the bad part is that the coolant valve was broken from day1 and they did not tested the fix after replacement.
This time I don't need the car quickly so I'll let them replace the thermostat and then test the car before mark it as successful repair.

It will take several weeks to get the part in so expect and update from me late September/early October.
sorry about complaining in advance
As much as I would LOVE to resolve this issue, the TSB requires an error code which I don't have. My current ambient temps fluctuate between 60-80F throughout the day and even on a 4 hour drive the car's coolant reading from my OBD scanner would constantly sit at 190°F. Under hard acceleration it briefly ticks up a few degrees and then back to 190 when I start crusing...at 85mph. Everytime I talk to a service advisor when I go in for scheduled maintenance (as recently as 2 days ago) I would get a different explanation. The most recent one is that they are designed to run at 190°F. The temp needle used to sit at exactly half way, 215°F. Somewhere along the way, maybe due to a software update, it no longer does. Not even in the summer. Right now it doesn't cause any obvious problems but when winter rolls around I'll be experiencing everything you are without any error code to show for it. I will be told by the service advisor, as I was last year, that this is normal and the temp is dropping at lower speeds, coasting, getting off the highway, etc. because I didn't drive far enough (15 ****ing miles) and because I have the heater on. I give up. Literally my only remaining complaint with this car is it not hitting operating temp, especially in the winter where that means I don't get full heat. At this rate, I should start looking into how to replace the darn pump myself.
 

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2020 CX-5 GT 2.5L 2011 3i 2.0L
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.... The temp needle used to sit at exactly half way, 215°F. Somewhere along the way, maybe due to a software update, it no longer does. ....
Your vehicle's current 190F readings are around 4 degrees lower than my typical 194F (different model but the same engine), and I believe what Mazda told you is correct. I suspect that something fixed a faulty gauge reading, because the rad fan will come on quite a bit before 215F and drive the temp way back down. However, if you don't want to believe what I wrote, then go ahead and fire the parts cannon. And after the smoke clears, I believe that your vehicle will still be running right around 190F.
 

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2019 Mazda3 AWD AT
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The temp needle used to sit at exactly half way, 215°F.
You're issue seems to be different than mine, however I think ~190F is ok.

Speaking about the gauge, I have never seen the needle in the middle for my Mazda3 and neither other Mazda3's I've driven or been in (Uber).
It's a bit weird for the needle not to be right in the middle as with other cars but this seems to be the way with 4th Gen. Mazda3.
Bellow is how I saw the needle on all Mazda3's I've driven and I believe that is normal for this car.

My friend has 2021 Mazda3 turbo and this is how it's on his car:
Speedometer Car White Tachometer Steering part

He're from Youtube from other markets (Europe):
Car Speedometer Odometer Gauge Tachometer
 
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2019 Mazda3 Sedan Premium AWD (April 2019 Japan build)
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Why? I guess you haven't ordered anything from Japan lately......Shipping can now take weeks because of new covid related restrictions.....
It still makes no sense. Parts don't transmit COVID, people do. I could understand if the part was waiting on one of the IC chips that are in short supply, but it doesn't seem like that's the issue.
 

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It still makes no sense. Parts don't transmit COVID, people do. I could understand if the part was waiting on one of the IC chips that are in short supply, but it doesn't seem like that's the issue.
I had a 3-4 week wait on both a wheel bearing and then a front axle. I know they came from Japan, but never got a straight answer on whether the parts were being produced in Japan specifically for my order or merely located and then shipped. Ultimately I figured it didn't really matter. COVID has wrecked havoc on the auto industry's entire supply chain, not just chip-related stuff. I think it might be easy to take for granted how changes like requiring masks and cutting back on labor might delay the shipment of a part to halfway across the world.
 

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2019 Mazda 3 Hatchback AWD 2.5G
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You're issue seems to be different than mine, however I think ~190F is ok.

Speaking about the gauge, I have never seen the needle in the middle for my Mazda3 and neither other Mazda3's I've driven or been in (Uber).
It's a bit weird for the needle not to be right in the middle as with other cars but this seems to be the way with 4th Gen. Mazda3.
Bellow is how I saw the needle on all Mazda3's I've driven and I believe that is normal for this car.

My friend has 2021 Mazda3 turbo and this is how it's on his car:
View attachment 283919
He're from Youtube from other markets (Europe):
View attachment 283918
Had to find an older picture but this is what I used to see. So maybe the gauge is now more accurate and it was always siting around 190.
Speedometer Car Odometer Tachometer Motor vehicle
 

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Your vehicle's current 190F readings are around 4 degrees lower than my typical 194F (different model but the same engine), and I believe what Mazda told you is correct. I suspect that something fixed a faulty gauge reading, because the rad fan will come on quite a bit before 215F and drive the temp way back down. However, if you don't want to believe what I wrote, then go ahead and fire the parts cannon. And after the smoke clears, I believe that your vehicle will still be running right around 190F.
If 190 is right and a software update changed how the gauge works then fine, I'll let it go. But I'm still unhappy about how a relatively large 2.5l 4 cylinder engine looses engine heat so quickly when it's cold out. Get off the highway and the temp immediately starts dropping. Don't get on the highway at all on your trip and the engine never reaches operating temp. Yes the coolant temps rise faster and stay up longer when the climate control is off but even my old accord with a smaller 2.3L 4 cylinder engine didn't struggle to provide heat or fluctuate nearly as much in the same temperatures. If it struggles below 0°F that's to be expected but I wouldn't expect this kind of issue at 30°-45°F. I could care less about the engine temp fluctuating if that's just how it is but I want heat from the heater and the heater doesn't really start pumping heat unless the engine temp goes above 180.
 

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2020 CX-5 GT 2.5L 2011 3i 2.0L
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If 190 is right and a software update changed how the gauge works then fine, I'll let it go. But I'm still unhappy about how a relatively large 2.5l 4 cylinder engine looses engine heat so quickly when it's cold out. Get off the highway and the temp immediately starts dropping. Don't get on the highway at all on your trip and the engine never reaches operating temp. Yes the coolant temps rise faster and stay up longer when the climate control is off but even my old accord with a smaller 2.3L 4 cylinder engine didn't struggle to provide heat or fluctuate nearly as much in the same temperatures. If it struggles below 0°F that's to be expected but I wouldn't expect this kind of issue at 30°-45°F. I could care less about the engine temp fluctuating if that's just how it is but I want heat from the heater and the heater doesn't really start pumping heat unless the engine temp goes above 180.
Did you at any time monitor the OBD ECT temp from a completely cold startup, through 10 or so miles of driving? If not, then try doing that, and compare your results to the excellent reporting that iwolffy did in his prior posts (#123 is a good summary). Then if your results look anything like his, you can take it to Mazda as proof that your vehicle has a defective coolant valve.
 

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2019 Mazda3 AWD AT
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Dealer called me yesterday to say that my coolant control valve has been replaced and the problem, of course, is still there.
Font Number Paper Paper product Document

They did indeed change my coolant control valve but it's even older then the last one they changed by reading the 2D Code; the old valve was produced in oct-2020 (PYFD1516Z 201002 2000924) and the one they replaced yesterday is from aug-2020 (PYFD1516Z 200821 2001004).
Now that I had three coolant control valves on my car, for sure it's not the issue; either is normal and I am too picky or a temperature sensor within ECU not providing the right output.

Today outside it was 50F so at 6am I went on my tested route (details here), without traffic with Mazda and with BMW and here's the result:
Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line

This is Mazda with old thermostat at 70F vs new one at 50F; the cooler temperature made it warm slower.
Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line

And here's a photo with the troublemaker that I'm just going to leave it alone from this moment.
Without having another Mazda3 to test it in the exact same manner, I can't say for certain that this is not normal; compared with how I remember the car last year (so no measurement) I don't think it's normal not to get to normal operating temperature (and the BMW confirms this) however not much I can do now.
Wheel Car Vehicle Tire Motor vehicle
 

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TSB got an update again and now it includes some connectors, o-ring, washer, coolant.
In January when I need to do the oil change, I will report the issue again (as it will be cold outside) and see what next could be checked as my thermostat was replaced twice and problem still there.
This is how it looks after 20 miles of driving now:
Car White Light Speedometer Steering part

I also checked the oil-level and for the first time, it's closer to minimum on the dipstick after 3000 miles (and I check regularly); my car has 17.700 miles now and perhaps my oil has degraded too much that my engine is mostly running cold? I took a look in the engine compartment and couldn't find any leaks apart from, what it looks to be some oil vapor.
Automotive design Rim Automotive exterior Automotive wheel system Motor vehicle


A bit off-topic but since Mazda is mostly used by my wife and with these ongoing issues, we tried to trade it in last week for a car that she liked: Subaru Crosstrek but the deal didn't happen due to crazy auto market now.
The Crosstrek in the trim we wanted has a list price of $26,500 and KBB was saying ~$23-24k for trade-in for my Mazda3; with the tax difference, I was expecting somewhere $2.5-3k extra to pay.
Automotive parking light Tire Wheel Land vehicle Car

Well, they didn't had any new Crosstrek in stock but they had a used one (CPO) with 8500 miles and I initially said, great! I might do the trade and not have to pay anything extra.
Well, I was so wrong as they want $13490 more! they sell a used Crosstrek with 8500 miles for $35.000 (list price is $26.500).
Font Parallel Paper Paper product Document
 

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2020 CX-5 GT 2.5L 2011 3i 2.0L
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... I also checked the oil-level and for the first time, it's closer to minimum on the dipstick after 3000 miles (and I check regularly); my car has 17.700 miles now and perhaps my oil has degraded too much that my engine is mostly running cold? ...
No, it doesn't work that way. Dirty oil can cause big engine problems, but running significantly colder isn't going to happen. And if you're saying that the current oil is only 3K miles old, then it should be in good condition (even dino oil), unless the engine had bad oil maintenance previously or your driving pattern is only very short trips.

I know your vehicle has had 2 replacement coolant valves, which would make one believe that part is not the issue. However, very few things can cause an engine to run significantly cooler than it was designed to. It comes down to the coolant flow being greater than it should be, which can only be a result of the mechanical thermostat and/or flow rate flap(s) being opened up too much. And that leaves only the coolant valve itself being defective, or else the ECM is not controlling the flap(s) correctly.

So the ECM is a possible suspect, but IMO I don't think the coolant valve can be ruled out either, giving that the second replacement was still prior to the good/bad cutoff date from Mazda. Yes, it seems highly unlikely for you to get 3 bad valves, but it can't be impossible either. The only other possible player in this issue is the ECT sensor, but again there are 2 of them on these engines. So one bad ECT sensor should always cause a code to be set when the ECM sees 2 different ECT values. But I suppose once again a bad ECT being the root cause can't be impossible either.

Based on what you wrote, you're probably going to dump the vehicle. But if you don't and it still won't warm up in the Winter, I suggest pushing Mazda to replace the coolant valve with one that has a later date. And also request that they test both ECT sensors, just to eliminate that possibility as well. After that, if it still won't heat up properly, you can find a nice high cliff and take care of the problem that way.
 

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Thanks; my oil changes were on time every 5000 miles and my drives usually involves 14 miles each way (mostly highway) and I would call it in an ideal "environment" where it's not that warm in the summer, not that cold in the winter, mostly constant revs.
It seems my car however after 35 miles of driving, the temperature is more closely to optimal one and doesn't change much (but that could also be the case that the engine bay is very warm and lots of radiant heat to disipate).

My next service would be in January when it would be colder and I would mention it again. (already mentioned to Mazda Customer Support that I had a thread open).

Of course, I would keep you upfront with my progress.

There is a post on a forum in russian where they have opened one of these thermostats and are some photos on how it looks (one could use Chrome and translate into english).
Attached some photos from that forum here:
Automotive fuel system Motor vehicle Light Automotive tire Automotive design
Automotive fuel system Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive design Automotive air manifold
White Crankset Automotive tire Bicycle tire Automotive lighting
Rim Bicycle part Font Auto part Automotive tire
Vehicle Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bicycle part Automotive design
 
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... It seems my car however after 35 miles of driving, the temperature is more closely to optimal one and doesn't change much...
And that fits in with flow being too high, because eventually the coolant temp does 'catch up', after being heated for an extended amount of time, and the engine bay has also completely warmed up, as you said. And I would also expect that eventual warming to just about eliminate an ECT sensor issue, because bad values from an ECT should cause the ECM to want to continuously keep driving the coolant temp down (if the bad values are higher than actual). But no reason not to have the ECTs tested anyway.



.... There is a post on a forum in russian where they have opened one of these thermostats and are some photos on how it looks ...
Hey, great find there and thanks a bunch for sharing it here (y)(y)

I've never even been able to get a first hand look at one of these things because it's been out of stock locally, on back order forever. I'm going to have it translated and spend some time reading what they wrote in the next day or so. There are no testing specs currently available from Mazda for this stupid valve, so it would be really nice if something they wrote leads to a way to do some electrical testing. Not expecting that to happen, but I'm sure it will be an interesting read regardless.
 
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From the latest TSB, it seems that the thermostat with the problem solved has the code PYFD-15-16ZA and there is no need to check 2D code or anything.
I don't understand why they didn't installed that part on my car two months ago.
Here's a link to it: PYFD-15-16ZA - Valve Water Control - MazdaSwag

I'm almost in the position to just buy the part myself and replace it at some shop but if the problem is not there, it's lost money plus potential for Mazda to void my warranty. I will try to have the dealer have another look at my car when it's colder outside and try to convince them to check temperature sensors and read the latest TSB with the new part number.
 

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... I'm going to have it translated and spend some time reading what they wrote in the next day or so. ...
Well, that didn't take very long ;)

After looking at the pics again, one of them appeared to be clearly showing something broken inside of the valve. So I couldn't put it down at that point, and got the thing translated right away to see what they had to say about that.

What they're showing in the pics and saying about them is frankly stunning information (for me anyway). They're making the statement that some of the seals inside of the valve are melting, as a result of being made from a plastic not suitable for holding up under coolant temperatures. Wow, wow, and wow again. This information is obviously completely different and contrary to what Mazda has said in their TSB about the low temp condition being caused by the valve having 'hollow' defects from the manufacturing process.

If these Russian guys are correct, then any and all of these valves could experience melted seals and fail at any time, not just the ones having the alleged manufacturing defects. Of course there's no way to know at this point if their claim is completely correct, but it's certain that something damaged those seals in their picture. One really obvious question that immediately challenges what they're saying is why aren't more of these valves failing, given that coolant temps go quite high anytime a vehicle idles for any length of time, before the fan kicks in to drive the temp back down. If what they're saying is correct, it would seem that there would be enough failures to require recalls on all affected vehicles.

In any case, I'm certainly going to be digging into this further, and will post back if and when anything else turns up. And I'd hope that others would do the same, if they find out something before I do.
 

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Here is the pic of the damaged seals.
They appear to be made of soft urethane. 😲


If so, those seals will start to fail at about 200° F. WTF was Mazda thinking?
 

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Here is the pic of the damaged seals.
They appear to be made of soft urethane. 😲


If so, those seals will start to fail at about 200° F. WTF was Mazda thinking?
Yep, this is all very concerning indeed. But it's also really hard to figure out what's going on here because there's a flip side where we know that many of our vehicles equipped with these valves have been over 200F many times.

The rad fan on my CX-5 comes on at 212 and shuts off at 197 (and then the temp drops another 4 degrees). So this means that anyone who drives in a quite a bit of slow stop-go traffic would be getting lots of rad on/off cycles and regular coolant temps well over 200F. So are most of the folks with that type of driving pattern destined to have their coolant valve fail (or failed already)?

From the sound of what the Russians wrote, the only immediate indication of the valve failing due to melting seals is the engine running colder than normal during the full warm-up process. Could be that most owners would be oblivious to that type of thing, unless it's cold enough outside to cause lack of cabin heating to be a problem for them.

Lots of questions and very few answers. I'm guessing there's quite a bit more yet to come on this.
 

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Its conceivable that Mazda used some seals that used improperly formulated material. It is possible to make those seals with a similar material that has a higher heat resistance.
If thats the case, Mazda will have inventory and manufacturing records that would indicate the source of the seals, how many cars they were installed in, and where those cars were sold.
Do others have this problem? We don't know, the members here that report it are only a small cross section of Mazda owners. There could be many others that have the same issues which go unreported.
 
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