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Discussion Starter #661 (Edited)
Now I could be wrong but the way I see it is of course you will get an extra special attention to your tune for a couple reasons.
1. your tune thread is stickied, it's the first thing they see.
2. You're a moderator, you have the ability to enforce punishment.

"As for the truth of it all, that will reveal itself soon and I have no further comment on it."
As a forum moderator is it not your "job" to conduct an investigation as to the allegations instead of just sitting on it? Look, we posted proof that Joe himself admits via PM, I have spoken to other moderators on the subject, and shared even further proof.
But the fact nothing is being done means this forum and its staff is an absolute laughing stock. It's hilarious that the moderators sit with their hands tied behind their backs and continually let this company, actually sole individual have his way with people. The forum has multiple unsatisfied customers, and customers who were directly lied to and cheated.
I can't comment specifically on other forums rules, but I assure that any forum with any form of integrity would have such a company dispelled.
understand OUR point on view on this subject, we don't want to idly sit by and let this HUGE issue get swept under the rug.
1. My thread was stickied well before OV started his tuning business and can easily be taken down by any other mod so while it may get attention you can't be mad about it really.

2. I know I'm a mod, but I'm also a very "laissez-faire" in my approach. I don't need to stick my nose in every thread since thats a waste of my time. If something is important enough to, I will, which brings me to my second point. If I was to investigate these threads/claims as you say I should, I'd then be called out for being biased. Damned if I do, damned if I don't, right? There are several other mods that have the ability to do so as well as any forum individual so feel free to call them out as well.

As for the staff, their actions, and the integrity of the forum, feel free to move on if you don't enjoy it. No one is forcing you to be here. All of the mods volunteer their own time for their services so don't be mad when they aren't up to your standards that you judge a company on. This isn't the first time a company has been called into question either over bad parts/service, so I still don't quite understand the witch hunt going on vs other instances of bad products.

No one is sweeping this under the rug either. If that were the case, any negative posts would have been deleted by now and clearly they haven't.

Edit: Since you edited your post to include the snark about being a forum sponsor after I started typing mine, I'll address it as well. Us mods have no control over who becomes a sponsor and who doesn't. That is the forum owner to my knowledge and we as mods enforce the rules they provide. I have no stake in the forum living or dying so how they decide whether someone stays or goes isn't my business. I do however have a choice who to give my business to.
 

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1. My thread was stickied well before OV started his tuning business and can easily be taken down by any other mod so while it may get attention you can't be mad about it really.

2. I know I'm a mod, but I'm also a very "laissez-faire" in my approach. I don't need to stick my nose in every thread since thats a waste of my time. If something is important enough to, I will, which brings me to my second point. If I was to investigate these threads/claims as you say I should, I'd then be called out for being biased. Damned if I do, damned if I don't, right? There are several other mods that have the ability to do so as well as any forum individual so feel free to call them out as well.

As for the staff, their actions, and the integrity of the forum, feel free to move on if you don't enjoy it. No one is forcing you to be here. All of the mods volunteer their own time for their services so don't be mad when they aren't up to your standards that you judge a company on. This isn't the first time a company has been called into question either over bad parts/service, so I still don't quite understand the witch hunt going on vs other instances of bad products.

No one is sweeping this under the rug either. If that were the case, any negative posts would have been deleted by now and clearly they haven't.
The other mods were asked, they said they won't do anything. This "witch hunt" is not about a bad service, it is that Dynotronics is SELLING maps to which they have no right to do so. Think about it from the opposite spectrum, how would we be handled if we were found to be selling Dynotronics tunes? Would the Moderators (all of them) sit by and continually allow it?
Here's what we can do (we would never actually do this, this is to prove a point).. We can get our sponsorship on this forum, start selling bad tunes, ripped off tunes, and if we are punished in any way whatsoever, then their is an entire forum bias is in support of Dynotronics. I understand that some of you may think of this as a joke, oh dynotronics was here first, or he has a "million dollar business" as Joe calls it but consider why we do this "witch hunt." Take a step back and consider that Joe goes around on his very own smear campaigns posting outlandish information and out-right lies, he will literally do anything to get your money, including completely ripping off tunes.
 

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The other mods were asked, they said they won't do anything. This "witch hunt" is not about a bad service, it is that Dynotronics is SELLING maps to which they have no right to do so. Think about it from the opposite spectrum, how would we be handled if we were found to be selling Dynotronics tunes? Would the Moderators (all of them) sit by and continually allow it?
Here's what we can do (we would never actually do this, this is to prove a point).. We can get our sponsorship on this forum, start selling bad tunes, ripped off tunes, and if we are punished in any way whatsoever, then their is an entire forum bias in support of Dynotronics.

What you can/should do is sue them copyright infringement and other illegal business practices you see fit and appropriate, not just come to a forum and demand it's moderators sort out your legal issue.

Thanks @Crespo for your update.
 

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I've been busy with life and haven't been keeping up with the tuning threads. Can someone please bring me up to date on the tuning software available for the 2014 Skyactic? Last I remember someone from Dynotronics said they are almost done cracking the ECU... this was months ago.

I want to tune my 2014 Mazda 3 2.0L to make advantage of the intake and catback exhaust that is installed as well as the premium fuel I run.

I don't feel like reading 66+ pages of issues that others had or are having. Does Dynotronics have available software to tune our ECUs?

Thanks
 

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What you can/should do is sue them copyright infringement and other illegal business practices you see fit and appropriate, not just come to a forum and demand it's moderators sort out your legal issue.

Thanks @Crespo for your update.
Unfortunately there are a few reasons why we can't do that. Biggest reason, can't afford it. Second I highly doubt it would hold up in court, as OEM ECU/ ECM tuning is illegal (by many aspects). You couldn't sue a drug dealer for selling your drugs could you? If you understand what I'm saying. So really our only option is to get his ability to sell shut down, which unfortunately as we are told no matter what the ending outcome is of this, that won't happen. This will be my final post on this forum. Thanks everyone. There is no point continuing escalation on the matter.



I've been busy with life and haven't been keeping up with the tuning threads. Can someone please bring me up to date on the tuning software available for the 2014 Skyactic? Last I remember someone from Dynotronics said they are almost done cracking the ECU... this was months ago.

I want to tune my 2014 Mazda 3 2.0L to make advantage of the intake and catback exhaust that is installed as well as the premium fuel I run.

I don't feel like reading 66+ pages of issues that others had or are having. Does Dynotronics have available software to tune our ECUs?

Thanks
There is nothing available, and we can say with certainty that Dynotronics has nothing available as his 2014 "customers" came PM'ing us asking why they haven't been given anything since as far back as september last year for their 2014 vehicle.

I have no stake in the forum living or dying so how they decide whether someone stays or goes isn't my business. I do however have a choice who to give my business to.
What is the point of having moderators at all then?
 

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Hmmmmm.... it's a real shame because I've had CASH in hand, waiting for a tuning option as far back as September of last year. Boo!

So who's gonna take my money and tune my MZ3? Freakin A, I want more power!
 

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College Zoom-Zoom
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Discussion Starter #667
Unfortunately there are a few reasons why we can't do that. Biggest reason, can't afford it. Second I highly doubt it would hold up in court, as OEM ECU/ ECM tuning is illegal (by many aspects). You couldn't sue a drug dealer for selling your drugs could you? If you understand what I'm saying. So really our only option is to get his ability to sell shut down, which unfortunately as we are told no matter what the ending outcome is of this, that won't happen. This will be my final post on this forum. Thanks everyone. There is no point continuing escalation on the matter.




There is nothing available, and we can say with certainty that Dynotronics has nothing available as his 2014 "customers" came PM'ing us asking why they haven't been given anything since as far back as september last year for their 2014 vehicle.


What is the point of having moderators at all then?
Keep spam down, boot/ban pests, small tasks. Think of us as front desk clerks.

What you can/should do is sue them copyright infringement and other illegal business practices you see fit and appropriate, not just come to a forum and demand it's moderators sort out your legal issue.
This.
 

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For OV:
1. You can't legally go after Dynotronics because you aren't even a real business.
2. You come onto this forum after being banned and try to sell your product without becoming a vendor.
3. You promote your tunes by putting down others, starting arguments like its your job rather then letting the product do the talking.
4. You've said you have quit tuning how many times?
5. You've constantly stated how shitty mazdaspeed 3's and their owners are, yet you started tuning on them.
6. For someone who claims to be a tuner and has put thousands of dollars into their 2.5 build, you can't pony up the money for a real dyno run?
7. Moderators aren't staff, they are just a good group of guys who want to help develop their car community
8. Didn't you work for Joe for a time? And a year ago you were taking in everything he had to say like a sponge
9. You can barely structure proper sentences.

As someone who is active on this forum, and loves his car, it's stupid what you have turned this community into trying to sell your fucking turbo kits on FB and giving false hope and stating you can make 350 hp blah blah blah. You've been doing this for less than a year, yet you talk like you invented this tuning shit. You deserve credit for what you have been able to accomplish, but bickering and arguing doesn't attract customers. What this forum needs a tuner who conducts himself and his business in a professional manner without all this child's play in between. If Joe really stole your tunes, then that really is a shame, but you need to fix your own problems. Crying over the internet is not going to change anything. What you should have done, after contacting Joe for an explanation, is make a simple thread outlining what, when, and how it happened, and what you are going to do to fix it, rather than this shit storm.

As far as I'm concerned, I would never let Dynotronics, or Mat near my car. Neither of them can answer a question straight up, and the fact that Crespo is still not complete his tuning doesn't reflect well on Dynotronics, regardless of how busy they are. If you (OV) are serious about this, develop your website, get vendor permission, and start a real business rather than being a fucking shit stain saying you quit every other week.
 

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Regarding tunes and who is using what: TBO there does not appear to be a knock out post that buckles this down... other than basically a number of opinion pieces... OVT threaten more info but never deliver or commit to detail ( the word "May" is an important and weasel word - a bit like saying "it was said" ) + DT have commented however IMO its not enough to counter the allegation and they should address the individuals who are the true victims here

Regarding Vendors: this recent spat is just that, an ongoing war of words between DT and OV...

Regarding members getting tuned: There does appear to be an issue here that needs to be addressed and this is getting muddied with the infringement issue which really is not proven

Regarding OV; Banned freaking everywhere as far as I can tell, mainly because he goes nuts when someone challenges him.... and most of it has been redacted ( post blowup ) or just removed by the forum moderators...

Regarding DT: there are a few things surfacing here that should be addressed but not as part as a inter vendor battle...
 

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@okellyr ... Did you not read my post? I was a huge supporter of DT untill all the information was finally put together and I discovered I was indeed being scammed. The fucker had the audacity to knowingly use exhaust cam tables that can and would cause long term permanent damage to my engine. OV gets soo frusturated and blows up because he has been trying to tell us all that Joe is a hack job for a long time but no one would listen for some reason everyone wants to just take Dynotronics word for everything. I strongly suggest you carefully read my review post and read Joes responses. He dances around the real issues and just uses that "the truth will come out" or "i cant say in a public forum" or "my hands are tied" crutch all the time. Its absolutely despicable and I for one will do my best to ensure no one else wastes their money like I did.
 

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I'm going to add my experience here so we have another perspective to go on. I bought (at full price) a tuning package probably about 6 months ago. It usually takes me a couple weeks to get my runs in due to traffic, timing, whatever, and probably another week or two to get a file back. So it's a little slow. I am on I think my 5th file now. If you were expecting to have this done quickly, then yes, you will be disappointed. But they helped me switch my license to a new computer, haven't given me any attitude, and (although it took a while), they did eventually get my CEL to go away (I installed a header that removed a sensor). Perhaps most importantly, I believe there has been a performance increase, though I have been waiting until we finish to get it dynoed. I may go through a second process for premium fuel so I can flash different files depending on how cheap I am being. So overall, my experience has been pretty positive.
 

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For OV:
1. You can't legally go after Dynotronics because you aren't even a real business.
We do have a real business llc.
2. You come onto this forum after being banned and try to sell your product without becoming a vendor.
Dynotronics sold on this forum as a non-vendor for 2 years. everyone overlooks this. Yet the minute we have something to offer it's Vendor or GTFO
3. You promote your tunes by putting down others, starting arguments like its your job rather then letting the product do the talking
I don't purposely start arguments, but one thing I don't do is sugar coat things, or let bad information slip by without saying anything. That's just how I have been my entire life, well before mazdas.
4. You've said you have quit tuning how many times?
True, rants are posted from time to time, an issue that I do have. I've said quite a few times i'm not a people person, but my intentions are never to harm anyone either.
5. You've constantly stated how shitty mazdaspeed 3's and their owners are, yet you started tuning on them.
a few yes, one being a personal friends
6. For someone who claims to be a tuner and has put thousands of dollars into their 2.5 build, you can't pony up the money for a real dyno run?
As if this has anything to do with anything? My car has been on a dyno a couple times, but the fact that i'm nagged almost daily for a dyno sheet is the exact reason I don't share.
7. Moderators aren't staff, they are just a good group of guys who want to help develop their car community
8. Didn't you work for Joe for a time? And a year ago you were taking in everything he had to say like a sponge
I got suckered into believing him on that. I never truly "worked" for him, as he didn't pay me anything, and I didn't do anything. Here is how it happened damn near exactly. He offered me a job, said he will send me out a job contract asap (I was out of the country at the time), more and more time went by, no contract. He offered a "gentlemens agreement" which I was dumb enough to agree to (which holds no bearing anyway). Then came all the skyactiv questions, then he sends me a file (remember no pay, no word of pay) and asks me to write all my base settings on it for him. I thought this was fishy as hell, and dropped that.
9. You can barely structure proper sentences.
I over-use commas, a lot. because grammar is the way of the internet..hah

As someone who is active on this forum, and loves his car, it's stupid what you have turned this community into trying to sell your fucking turbo kits on FB and giving false hope and stating you can make 350 hp blah blah blah (What I have turned this community into? Giving false hope? I haven't turned this community into anything). You've been doing this for less than a year, yet you talk like you invented this tuning shit. I don't recall saying you'll make 350 hp or blah blah blah. I've been tuning far before I owned a mazda, just not mazdas
As far as I'm concerned, I would never let Dynotronics, or Mat near my car. Neither of them can answer a question straight up(which questions have I have not answered "straight up"?), and the fact that Crespo is still not complete his tuning doesn't reflect well on Dynotronics, regardless of how busy they are. If you (OV) are serious about this, develop your website, get vendor permission - I have no interest in becoming vendor and paying $400 dollars every 3 months, with the way this forum is I would sell maybe a few tunes a month, and start a real business rather than being a fucking shit stain saying you quit every other week.

Regarding tunes and who is using what: TBO there does not appear to be a knock out post that buckles this down... other than basically a number of opinion pieces... OVT threaten more info but never deliver or commit to detail ( the word "May" is an important and weasel word - a bit like saying "it was said" ) + DT have commented however IMO its not enough to counter the allegation and they should address the individuals who are the true victims here

Regarding Vendors: this recent spat is just that, an ongoing war of words between DT and OV...

Regarding members getting tuned: There does appear to be an issue here that needs to be addressed and this is getting muddied with the infringement issue which really is not proven

Regarding OV; Banned freaking everywhere as far as I can tell, mainly because he goes nuts when someone challenges him.... and most of it has been redacted ( post blowup ) or just removed by the forum moderators...

Regarding DT: there are a few things surfacing here that should be addressed but not as part as a inter vendor battle...
Did you just fully neglect to read anything that has been posted? I mean if PM's from Joe himself is not proof enough that what he is using is not his.. which have been posted..

This is Mat currently(spoke with Phil about this, for posting), Because Derrick is away at the moment he just had a newborn.
 

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Regarding members getting tuned: There does appear to be an issue here that needs to be addressed and this is getting muddied with the infringement issue which really is not proven

Regarding DT: there are a few things surfacing here that should be addressed but not as part as a inter vendor battle...
There's really not much evidence AGAINST infringement, so arguing against it is going to get you no where. A number of strong pieces of evidence (log files, maps, PMs with Joe confessing; see the other posts) confirm that the VVT maps were stolen from OV tuning. This is also backed up by many individuals. Altogether, the totality of evidence strongly indicates that they WERE STOLEN. Simply saying we need a third party to evaluate this, or time stamp methods, is not helping Dynotronics case, when you consider all that is against them.

I totality agree that we should put all tuner wars aside, and look at the more IMPORTANT issue, which is consumer feedback from Dynotronics. Here it is in a nutshell, so that anyone reading this in the future can get a brief summary. So far, we've seen no positive results (actual numbers of any kind) from N/A Mazda 3 tunes (skyactiv & MZR) done by Dynotronics, and it does not appear that anyone has completed one of their tunes since the service was advertised over 2 years ago. @wingzero_ got a real dyno test done with his MZR, and found that his car actually lost power. We've also seen a performance loss reported by @D-Jack and @chris_top_her (both skyactiv). Even more important, tunes performed on several customers cars (D-Jack, chris_top_her, @scottie350) caused excessive knocking, and engine related problems. The knocking was caused by poor VVT and ignition timing settings implemented by Dynotronics. They seemed to have no problems exposing their customer cars to excessive knock, potentially leading to costly repairs. This should be a huge eye opener to anyone considering a tune from Dynotronics in the future.

For everyone that is currently getting tuned by Dynotronics, I encourage you to inspect your log files, and ensure that you are not knocking excessively. Furthermore, don't trust that your tune is actually making power! If you think you are experiencing gains from the way the car feels, they may very likely be from the effects of a MAF sensor calibration, rather than actual hp gains. If you have a SRI, your MAF calibration will be thrown off, causing the car to feel slower under some conditions, and this can be remedied with a MAF calibration. The best method to determine the state of your tune, is to collect data from your well recorded logs, and ANALYZE THE NUMBERS FOR YOURSELF. Make sure to compare the results to your stock file runs. I posted earlier how to collect data for time to complete 3rd gear runs using MazdaEdit. If runs are done in the same location and similar conditions, this is a fairly reliable method for performing a comparison:

http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/2010-2013-mazda-3-engine-performance/72378-phantom-supercharger-skyactiv-6.html (post #53 )
 

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@okellyr ... Did you not read my post? I was a huge supporter of DT untill all the information was finally put together and I discovered I was indeed being scammed. The fucker had the audacity to knowingly use exhaust cam tables that can and would cause long term permanent damage to my engine. OV gets soo frusturated and blows up because he has been trying to tell us all that Joe is a hack job for a long time but no one would listen for some reason everyone wants to just take Dynotronics word for everything. I strongly suggest you carefully read my review post and read Joes responses. He dances around the real issues and just uses that "the truth will come out" or "i cant say in a public forum" or "my hands are tied" crutch all the time. Its absolutely despicable and I for one will do my best to ensure no one else wastes their money like I did.
Total did man ( a few times ) and the situation is no good... end of story no more... and your thread is on point... you are the consumer and you had a trust and that trust is blown away... Its not easy being a hobbyist tbo and the reliance on vendors / experts is complete... your thread is really well put together thought out and concise ... hat off and am freaking sorry that this is happening to you....

OV blows up on every forum i've seen him on, not just here... lol I came across a cross post between forums where various members were pleading with the members of the other forum to un-ban him so he would leave them alone - paraphrasing a little ....

The point is that there are 2 very distinct points here...

1> there appears to be an issue with DT that needs to be surfaced = u have done this; where the tables come from or who owns them is irrelevant to this, however the explanation to the events and resolution is
2> there is an issue between 2 vendors that is being battled out publically on who was first to develop a bad table!

and all of the above is why I always wanted to have a vibrant open mazda3 tuning community... however the demand is not there .... really... have been trying to spin it up on M3F for a long time ( yes predating OVT's forum and how to's ) and the number of contributors is 0
 

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I totality agree that we should put all tuner wars aside, and look at the more IMPORTANT issue, which is consumer feedback from Dynotronics. Here it is in a nutshell, so that anyone reading this in the future can get a brief summary. So far, we've seen no positive results (actual numbers of any kind) from N/A Mazda 3 tunes (skyactiv & MZR) done by Dynotronics, and it does not appear that anyone has completed one of their tunes since the service was advertised over 2 years ago. @wingzero_ got a real dyno test done with his MZR, and found that his car actually lost power. We've also seen a performance loss reported by @D-Jack and @chris_top_her (both skyactiv). Even more important, tunes performed on several customers cars (D-Jack, chris_top_her, @scottie350) caused excessive knocking, and engine related problems. The knocking was caused by poor VVT and ignition timing settings implemented by Dynotronics. They seemed to have no problems exposing their customer cars to excessive knock, potentially leading to costly repairs. This should be a huge eye opener to anyone considering a tune from Dynotronics in the future.

For everyone that is currently getting tuned by Dynotronics, I encourage you to inspect your log files, and ensure that you are not knocking excessively. Furthermore, don't trust that your tune is actually making power! If you think you are experiencing gains from the way the car feels, they may very likely be from the effects of a MAF sensor calibration, rather than actual hp gains. If you have a SRI, your MAF calibration will be thrown off, causing the car to feel slower under some conditions, and this can be remedied with a MAF calibration. The best method to determine the state of your tune, is to collect data from your well recorded logs, and ANALYZE THE NUMBERS FOR YOURSELF. Make sure to compare the results to your stock file runs. I posted earlier how to collect data for time to complete 3rd gear runs using MazdaEdit. If runs are done in the same location and similar conditions, this is a fairly reliable method for performing a comparison:

http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/2010-2013-mazda-3-engine-performance/72378-phantom-supercharger-skyactiv-6.html (post #53 )
Yes to the above! totally yes...
 

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Unfortunately there are a few reasons why we can't do that. Biggest reason, can't afford it. lol then sit down & shut up. Don't start a business you can't support it. Maybe don't give away free maps? Second I highly doubt it would hold up in court, as OEM ECU/ ECM tuning is illegal (by many aspects). Say for off-road purposes and move on with your lawsuit. Small claims court is affordable.
You couldn't sue a drug dealer for selling your drugs could you? If you understand what I'm saying. So really our only option is to get his ability to sell shut down, You're trying to get his ability to sale shut-down but won't go through proper channels... I doubt M3R has anything to do with the DT ability to sale.
which unfortunately as we are told no matter what the ending outcome is of this, that won't happen. This will be my final post on this forum. Thanks everyone. There is no point continuing escalation on the matter. ...until you post again.
I apologize for fanning the fire and hi-jacking what has been an informative thread until lately. AND i'm doing my best to stay biased, but geez! You make it so hard to be on your side, whoever you are. (Derrik, Matt, OVT?)

Since you have every excuse not to formally/legally continue your battle (outside of a free forum,) I would suggest choosing ONE battle to fight. And that would be proving he is using your bad tables. None of this PM, Facebook stuff. Go get the exif data from the files and show the world you were first.
 

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For the record .. I looked at d-jacks logs and despite early reports to the contrary; there was no evidence of knock in any of the logs / tunes and ( in fact) knock was reduced over stock... also performance was found in the last tune d-jack received, in vdyno ( for what its worth ), to be on par with a stock tune.

The above is detailed in d-jacks thread about his DT tuning experience
 
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