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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Washed my car today and realized last week that when the dealer did its first oil change, rotated the tires and did the state inspection that they nicked up my wheels. Couple areas it's from the air wrench spinning I'm the lugnut hole. Couple areas it's a nick outside the whole like the nicked the wheel on something. Crap like that really bugs me because these guys do a million cars, they don't care. So other than complaining to the service manager I have to be ok now with my wheels being nicked up and I'm sure in the future even moreso. I knew I should have given them a socket I have that has a protective collar to prevent damage. But the stuff on the outside is like from them just tossing my wheels or something.

This is Chantilly, Mazda in the DC area. By the way they massacre their certified cars paint jobs as well. Saw a CX-5 sand Mazda where whomever on their staff that's in charge of cleaning up the cars literally digs in with all their strength to make massive swirl marks all the way through the base coat. I saw this the day I was there.
 

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First I like your user name but probably not for the same reason you choose it? :wink2:
As for the wheel you go to the General manager of the dealership. If no result to go to your local court house and file a small claims.
In most cases when the owner of the dealership gets this they will settle out of court. Hopefully you will not have to go that far.

I recomend NOT to threaten taking them to court. If they say there is nothing they can do leave it at that and go file.
 

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I don't let the dealer touch anything for this very reason. Warranty work and oil changes but nothing else, and its clearly stipulated whats to be done in writing before the car is handed over.
Always look at the car, and especially close at the stuff that was supposed to be worked on, before leaving the dealer lot. It might be tough getting the dealer to own up a week later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
It was raining that day and was probably pretty tough to see much detail anyways. I usually always try to walk around the car. O I popped the hood a couple days later and they left drops of oil on the engine cover that had dripped down a bit.

Already going back because mysteriously the passenger side radiator fan is making noise now. Maybe I didn't notice before. Not sure how that could get screwed up from an oil change.

I can't do my own tire changes, balances and alignments. Best I can do is walk around beforehand, talk to the mechanic, etc.

I can't do my own state inspection. Even though they can see the pads without removing the wheels they might take them off anyways.

I think giving them the socket with a sleeve is best I can do all the time and hope they use it. No way is a mechanic not gonna use an air wrench.

I've got it in my mind to do my own stuff
 

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It was raining that day and was probably pretty tough to see much detail anyways. I usually always try to walk around the car. O I popped the hood a couple days later and they left drops of oil on the engine cover that had dripped down a bit.

Already going back because mysteriously the passenger side radiator fan is making noise now. Maybe I didn't notice before. Not sure how that could get screwed up from an oil change.

I can't do my own tire changes, balances and alignments. Best I can do is walk around beforehand, talk to the mechanic, etc.

I can't do my own state inspection. Even though they can see the pads without removing the wheels they might take them off anyways.

I think giving them the socket with a sleeve is best I can do all the time and hope they use it. No way is a mechanic not gonna use an air wrench.

I've got it in my mind to do my own stuff
I do my own rotations. The Mazda dealer here doesn't really have the right equipment for mounting on aluminum alloy rims without marring them. They might be able to do it but not taking any chances. No Hunter Road Force machine for balancing properly either. As luck would have it, there is a Chevrolet dealer/body shop a mile from me that has a brand new state of the art shop as part of the complex, and all my mounting and balancing is done by them. Alignments get done at a shop that does precision alignments. Most dealers won't do that, they just get it to factory spec "in the green" and call it good....:surprise: The only time the car goes to the Mazda dealer is for oil changes and whats required for warranty. Not to mention its a half hour drive to get there, the others are local and minutes away.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well I can't get around the yearly state inspection. I could sit there and make sure they use a socket with protective sleeve I have. Alignment and balance it's either dealer or another shop. I don't have much choice unless I seek out a place that will be super careful.

I told the guy who looked up my records that I was picky about my car and how we're their guys. He said their guys were good but sometimes they make mistakes. He told me this before I did anything.

Honestly there's not a dealer or shop that won't use an air tool and therefore make marks in the barrel slightly every now and then. My old Nissan Xterra had tons of marks in the lug barrels because of this from a regular shop. I finally got a lug socket with sleeve to stop it.

The one nick I see looks to be an accident from something and the other was from the air tool spinning in the outside and could have happened anyways.

So obviously the best of this when I go tomorrow is me getting pissed and them probably saying things like this happen Which to me I'd say to them it shouldn't happen. It's not major but it shows they don't care enough. The mechanic and/or the state inspectors.
 

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Well I can't get around the yearly state inspection. I could sit there and make sure they use a socket with protective sleeve I have. Alignment and balance it's either dealer or another shop. I don't have much choice unless I seek out a place that will be super careful.

I told the guy who looked up my records that I was picky about my car and how we're their guys. He said their guys were good but sometimes they make mistakes. He told me this before I did anything.

Honestly there's not a dealer or shop that won't use an air tool and therefore make marks in the barrel slightly every now and then. My old Nissan Xterra had tons of marks in the lug barrels because of this from a regular shop. I finally got a lug socket with sleeve to stop it.

The one nick I see looks to be an accident from something and the other was from the air tool spinning in the outside and could have happened anyways.

So obviously the best of this when I go tomorrow is me getting pissed and them probably saying things like this happen Which to me I'd say to them it shouldn't happen. It's not major but it shows they don't care enough. The mechanic and/or the state inspectors.
I get around that sort of stuff by using McGard spline drive lugs. They have a smaller diameter drive so you don't get the marring inside the lug wells. The removal tool is a long thin socket that you can't use with an air tool, or shouldn't anyhow or you could break it (it says so right on it). There are probably regular spline drive sockets that would work, but chances are a dealer tech wouldn't have one. Just hand the guy the tool, and tell him by hand only. The lugs should only be at about 85 ft/lbs, so they come off pretty easily. Installing the lugs should be by hand anyhow, not with a pneumatic driver, and set properly with a torque wrench, not a torque stick. If the tech doesn't have the right tools or doesn't know how, its time to find a new shop.
Just don't forget to get the tool back....
I have used these on both my cars for some time now and so far the wheels are intact.
 

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Had my tires installed at Big-O Tires and decided to get new valve stems. Why new valve stems I don't know - my brain wasn't entirely engaged at that point.

The massively scratched two wheels when using a valve stem puller (whatever it's called) to install the new stems. The other two wheels were fine, so I'm guessing there is a protective piece of material they use for alloy wheels.

My wife took the car back to show them the damage and the ordered us two new wheels! I couldn't believe it. Start by taking the car back and see what they say. It might surprise you like it did us. Big-O will still get my business after their fair treatment of us.

The funny downside is the two new wheels look better than the ones on the other side!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I get around that sort of stuff by using McGard spline drive lugs. They have a smaller diameter drive so you don't get the marring inside the lug wells. The removal tool is a long thin socket that you can't use with an air tool, or shouldn't anyhow or you could break it (it says so right on it). There are probably regular spline drive sockets that would work, but chances are a dealer tech wouldn't have one. Just hand the guy the tool, and tell him by hand only. The lugs should only be at about 85 ft/lbs, so they come off pretty easily. Installing the lugs should be by hand anyhow, not with a pneumatic driver, and set properly with a torque wrench, not a torque stick. If the tech doesn't have the right tools or doesn't know how, its time to find a new shop.
Just don't forget to get the tool back....
I have used these on both my cars for some time now and so far the wheels are intact.
So you only install one per wheel? Wouldn't they just use the air wrench on the other lugs? Or are you replacing all lugs? You have OEM wheels or you got aftermarket?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
STATUS after going in today:

Talked to the service lady today who took my car in last time. I told her the situation, I'm not a yelling/screaming type. She put me in contact with the service manager. He walked through the service main area and man he was old looking, hair disheveled and looked like he had just run the Boston Marathon. So it was tough to talk to him. Anyways he listened volunteered, since I'm bringing it in tomorrow for the fan to be checked out, to have the car sent to a local wheel repair place that they use when customers do things like curb their wheels as the dealer doesn't do that themselves. He did come right out and say I'm not getting new wheels. To which I said I'm not trying to get new wheels. Not sure why that needed to be said but maybe because he was asking me what I wanted done as he said he just wanted me happy. I'm a bit hesitant about handing my car over to another shop and them repairing the wheels and then damaging them in other areas. I have to think about whether these relatively tiny marks are worth it and maybe it's best to prevent future damage. Thoughts? It's a small nick in the outside of the alloy (m___ f___ mechanic, couple marks in lug area from air tool and an outside mark or two from the air tool.

I told the girl when I was talking to her and the guy from now on I have to hand them the lug protector and say by hand only. I Could very easily use another dealer that is closer to my work but I'm sure they would do the same crap if I didn't tell them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
First I like your user name but probably not for the same reason you choose it? :wink2:
As for the wheel you go to the General manager of the dealership. If no result to go to your local court house and file a small claims.
In most cases when the owner of the dealership gets this they will settle out of court. Hopefully you will not have to go that far.

I recomend NOT to threaten taking them to court. If they say there is nothing they can do leave it at that and go file.
Thanks. I usually go by grendels_arm.

I'm not the type to go yelling and screaming to the GM over this damage which is relatively small. I took it up the command structure from the service person who checked me in last time, who looked at the damage with me, and then the service manager who volunteered to look at the damage with me tomorrow when I have it in again. Based on what we see he says they can send the car out to a local wheel repair as he wants me happy. In no way do I want new wheels over this. It's that not huge a damage. I would never go to small claims over something like this.
 

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Thanks. I usually go by grendels_arm.

I'm not the type to go yelling and screaming to the GM over this damage which is relatively small. I took it up the command structure In no way do I want new wheels over this. It's that not huge a damage. I would never go to small claims over something like this.
well your "go by" name is closer to why I like it.
Most time in life in general you never win by yelling screaming!
If you price out what a OEM replacement wheel is I would be a little upset.
The small claims court systems are there for our use (we pay tax dollars) and there is nothing wrong with using them to help us resolve things.

Few things about service and such....

You pay for a service this service means that the person working on your vehicle should be concerned with any thing that may cause damage even as minor as scratches. Often times people will not pursue having the part replaced or repair to satisfaction. When these damages are pursued most every time the result is in favor of the customer and the better service centers will take this experience to their technicians/employees as a training exercise to be more careful.


OEM Alignment specification set by the auto manufacture and also "must" for liability as well service shop insurance purposes be used. These specification correct the vehicles align for best tracking and tire wear as set by the auto manufactures engineers . After what, "BILLIONS" of miles on OEM alignment specification used for decades I dont think there really is a problem using acceptable results of recommended alignment specifications.
There is no such thing as a performance alignment.... but let me clarify this a bit. Some enthusiasts will have preferences on how they like their vehicle to steer and track on the road. They may seek shops that will with a signed disclaimer adjust to the customers desires which in most cases is not always in the best settings for wear of suspension parts or tires. Now some better quality shops or a really experience Alignment Technician may ask the customer and can adjust even within OEM specifications for common roads design i.e. how the crown (common or reversed) is shaped on highways as determine by a states Highway Department or if any federal guidelines.
Now for ROAD TRACK...., well for some of us we do alignment in the pit area after a couple of hot laps, tweaking here and there depending on the track condition and tires used for the day.

Balancing... this gets tricky because the internet is full of THE BEST ways to do everything in LIFE. If a shop calibrates their machine each day and the machine has no worn parts then chances are you are going to get a pretty damn good balance if the technician takes the time to place the weights in the proper place.

I personally before I have a shop do the universally used now a days "Computer spin Balance" will completely clean my tires and wheel,removing any and all debris from the tread, carefully using plastic or wood tools to remove all the existing weights and makes sure that all the adhesive is removed from the rims so the new weights will attach firmly. Ya PIA but the results....... :smile2:

As for how they remove and install my wheels...well for me the shop I use I ask for specific people I trust. If they are not available the manager will verbally WARN the technician to be careful (maybe about me personally IKD? ) and to use low pressure on the air tools both removing the lug nuts and also for the "snugging up the wheel prior the HAND TORQUE finishing.
I always do a walk around inspection before I finalize the my bill.
At times I have even pulled a random wheel and set it up on my bubble balance just to see if the bubble set to center. If not its back to the shop and they get to re-check ALL the wheel for balance. :nerd:


So in closing and removing myself from this thread for further responding as I have given every thing I can think of to help GOOD LUCK with your endeavor to get your wheels replaced or repaired to your satisfaction! :thumbup 1:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well your "go by" name is closer to why I like it.
Most time in life in general you never win by yelling screaming!
If you price out what a OEM replacement wheel is I would be a little upset.
The small claims court systems are there for our use (we pay tax dollars) and there is nothing wrong with using them to help us resolve things.

Few things about service and such....

You pay for a service this service means that the person working on your vehicle should be concerned with any thing that may cause damage even as minor as scratches. Often times people will not pursue having the part replaced or repair to satisfaction. When these damages are pursued most every time the result is in favor of the customer and the better service centers will take this experience to their technicians/employees as a training exercise to be more careful.


OEM Alignment specification set by the auto manufacture and also "must" for liability as well service shop insurance purposes be used. These specification correct the vehicles align for best tracking and tire wear as set by the auto manufactures engineers . After what, "BILLIONS" of miles on OEM alignment specification used for decades I dont think there really is a problem using acceptable results of recommended alignment specifications.
There is no such thing as a performance alignment.... but let me clarify this a bit. Some enthusiasts will have preferences on how they like their vehicle to steer and track on the road. They may seek shops that will with a signed disclaimer adjust to the customers desires which in most cases is not always in the best settings for wear of suspension parts or tires. Now some better quality shops or a really experience Alignment Technician may ask the customer and can adjust even within OEM specifications for common roads design i.e. how the crown (common or reversed) is shaped on highways as determine by a states Highway Department or if any federal guidelines.
Now for ROAD TRACK...., well for some of us we do alignment in the pit area after a couple of hot laps, tweaking here and there depending on the track condition and tires used for the day.

Balancing... this gets tricky because the internet is full of THE BEST ways to do everything in LIFE. If a shop calibrates their machine each day and the machine has no worn parts then chances are you are going to get a pretty damn good balance if the technician takes the time to place the weights in the proper place.

I personally before I have a shop do the universally used now a days "Computer spin Balance" will completely clean my tires and wheel,removing any and all debris from the tread, carefully using plastic or wood tools to remove all the existing weights and makes sure that all the adhesive is removed from the rims so the new weights will attach firmly. Ya PIA but the results....... :smile2:

As for how they remove and install my wheels...well for me the shop I use I ask for specific people I trust. If they are not available the manager will verbally WARN the technician to be careful (maybe about me personally IKD? ) and to use low pressure on the air tools both removing the lug nuts and also for the "snugging up the wheel prior the HAND TORQUE finishing.
I always do a walk around inspection before I finalize the my bill.
At times I have even pulled a random wheel and set it up on my bubble balance just to see if the bubble set to center. If not its back to the shop and they get to re-check ALL the wheel for balance. :nerd:


So in closing and removing myself from this thread for further responding as I have given every thing I can think of to help GOOD LUCK with your endeavor to get your wheels replaced or repaired to your satisfaction! :thumbup 1:
You'd get your wheels repaired for the damage I've mentioned in this post or not just chalk it up to the future have to take steps to prevent damage? Not like there are huge gouges in the wheels and probably no one but me would see the problems.
 

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There is no reason to get into a big discussion about service options. However, a good alignment is better than "in the green" any day. Thats what you get most times from a C tech at a dealer. Close enough to say its "in spec" but nothing more. OEM alignments are a compromise between lawyers and the adjustment capability of the cars suspension. Most FWD cars are intentionally set up with an alignment that induces a lot of understeer, which is easier to recover from than oversteer. If you have a mind to, you can make your car feel more responsive on the road by using proper alignment numbers and such.
A Hunter Road Force GSP9700 diagnostic machine (google it, you'll see:wink2:) is the best way to get the wheels balanced, that is why most decent tire shops are using them now. Spin balance just doesn't cut it anymore. You can actually go online and find out which shops have them.
I know how things work around here at least in dealer service bays. C techs, mostly young kids, flat rate, do it quick and move on to the next car. :tongue_smilie 1: Lots of things "happen".
New OEM rims are $$$$$, $300+ each last time I looked. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, if they offer, take it and run. How much would it cost to repair the rims vs replacing them? At dealer cost it might be easier to replace. Depends on what the vendor quotes to repair though.

But all that still doesn't answer the original questions.........

So you only install one per wheel? Wouldn't they just use the air wrench on the other lugs? Or are you replacing all lugs? You have OEM wheels or you got aftermarket?
Full set of lugs all around. Both cars have oem and aftermarket rims. No air tools allowed....:smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I don't care about the alignment thing. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Service Manager flat out said I wasn't getting new rims and I didn't even suggest that I wanted them. And that would bring up other issues anyways. They would have to unmount and remount tires and if they don't have the right machine they would damage the new ones. For the damage done no way would I get any. The damage is relatively minor but there's still avoidable damage so that's why if they can repair I'm ok with that. I have no idea about repair technology these days. I just don't want whomever they take it to to screw up the wheels or car worse.

I've heard/read somewhere it's like $50 a wheel. Especially for this minor stuff I can see that being about right. And from what I saw we are talking 2 wheels, maybe 3.

I'll take some of the blame forgetting to give them the socket. It's the socket the guy uses in this video. I would have done even removal by hand but this is probably better than an air wrench.

 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I reached out to the local Alloy wheel repair place I took a guess at the dealer would probably use and it looks like I guessed right. I'll probably give the green light for them to repair the areas. They are a mobile place. If not for the little nick the whole job is basically just spraying a little but after a light sand in/near 2-3 wheel lug holes. The nick not sure if they have to like weld or what that little area or if it's worth that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Video does not work. Says Playback Disabled by owner?
Maybe you need to be logged onto Google to play? Just a guess as I clicked on your reply with the link and it played.

It's basically a guy using a battery powered drill with a socket with a plastic protective sleeve on it (you get them at Harbor Freight) to remove the lugs on his Honda, and then using a torque wrench to reinstall.

The dealer has a mobile wheel repair place out today with my car. They let me drive a CX-5 (not bad at all feels powerful in automatic moreso than how I baby my manual 3) The guy said he's seen worse and not so bad. Anyways hopefully it gets fixed well and my car makes it out unscathed.

Next thing is to prep so I can start doing my own rotations and maybe even oil changes. Then look around for a good shop I can trust for when I need a balance and alignment. Heck I might just do everything like filters even though I paid for the prepaid maintenance. Wonder if they would give me the parts, I doubt it. No big deal.

I'm waiting for 2020 to see the second year of SkyActiv-X.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The tech who's taken charge of my case called me up. At first he started telling me about how he had removed the cabin filter, checked for debris, etc. and I started to get ticked because I explicitly said where my fan noise I'm having is coming from (passenger side radiator fan). This is what my car was going in for today originally. Of course the sound doesn't happen when the car is warm. He politely actually asked me to let him finish because he wanted to go over everything he did. So I calmed down. Anyways he gave me an update, said he wanted to keep my car overnight so he could hear it tomorrow, and he volunteered to keep my car in a safe place away from everything. Gave me confidence that he cared about my car in this situation.

For the wheels he said he had told the wheel guy to not do anything as he didn't want them looking like crap and mismatched. Exactly why I had been reluctant to fix. He was also going to management to see if they would be open to pulling a new set of wheels/tires off of a new car. I was a bit surprised and actually wasn't sure I'd want a new set of wheels as I sorta want my wheels I bought my car with. Sorta weird but o well. Anyways I said yeah keep me posted. Anyways assuming he isn't mucking up the car I think I found a trustworthy mechanic at the dealer I want to use. I even called back and asked him to update my Infotainment as my 3 has rebooted a couple times the other night and there is a newer update than 441.

Hopefully this all works out. Until then I'll be in the CX-5.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
New OEM rims are $$$$$, $300+ each last time I looked. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth, if they offer, take it and run. How much would it cost to repair the rims vs replacing them? At dealer cost it might be easier to replace. Depends on what the vendor quotes to repair though.
The main mechanic has told me that management is ok with pulling wheels off a new 3 and putting them on mine. Mine would get refinished and put on the other car. It's the only one they have as it's the only manual on the lot and the only 2017 they have. My wheels are not that bad so I feel like it's maybe a waste to do this and my car ends up with wheels from some other car. Sounds weird I know. Even though I opened this thread about the damage I never expected to get an offer for new wheels so it never crossed my mind.

Whadaya guys think?
 
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