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Discussion Starter #1
* I searched and didn't find much on this, so I thought I'd post this update.


I just spoke with DP Tune, in TX. Very cool guy. We talked about remapping in relation to mods, and the best course of action. I now feel very comfortable with what they do.

He said after I put my on an intake (already on), exhaust (soon!), and header (WTF WHO KNOWS), would be the best time to remap. I already knew this, but they go above and beyond a typical general program.
They ship out a datalogger and have me do some nice long WOT 3rd gear pulls, and some normal driving as well. I then ship back the logger and the ECU. They'll take a look and remap everything based on actual logged info.

I have done some tuning on a 4G63 with a datalogger. Although it wasn't as precise as a dyno with a wideband o2, it came pretty dang close. Good tuners and use the logger and get the job done. For my little 2.0L, I'd rather save the dyno money for something else.

Thought I'd pass along the info. If this was covered before, I'm sorry.
 

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$75 for three dyno pulls with accurate a/f ratios is not unreasonable. The problem I see with the data logging scenario is that your going to have to put down a large depoisit on your credit card because he's going to send you a laptop. That and the fact that if you screw up the laptop somehow you own it. Plus the data won't be as accurate as the dyno info. Also with a before and after dyno sheet you'll be able to prove out the gains you wind up with instead of guessing. If the gains arent correct it's your right to send the ecu back till they get it right (not uncommon with a non generic just for your car custom tune). Bottom line is that if you want proof of a good tune you'll have to shell out a total of $150 for before and after dyno pulls along with the $500 for the tune. Tuning is voodoo as far as I'm concerened. I want proof of what I pay for so don't get gains in certain areas and losses in others.

LOL: 7 lb Weight Reduction (driver on diet) :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I didn't know about the laptop. I used to use a palm pilot with a decent program on it. It plugged right into the obd2 port. Mabye there is a dyno near DP Tune. Its not that far of a drive for me. I would definately feel more comfortable driving there, getting on a dyno, then getting the remap done,then back on a dyno!
 

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OK maybe the palm pilot is an option but I think i remember reading a thread on another forum that DP sends a laptop. Yea, before and after dynos are the way to go so you don't wind up with some freak leaned out condition that might have adverse effects on you motor. Cheap insurance for the most expensive part of your car that won't be covered under warranty since unauthorized (non factory) flash counts are stored in the ecu forever and easily accessed by the dealership.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well maybe I can get a Texas dyno day near DP Tune and a group by on several remaps. After I get the header on, this is a must for me.
 

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Andrew
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Cobb is opening a so cal shop January 22nd. They are on the moccforums and are going to start having more things available for us mazda owners. It would be interesting if they could be influenced to tune or make something plug and play for the 3 (since they only focus on the speed atm)
 

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Smells of Elderberries
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Cobb is opening a so cal shop January 22nd. They are on the moccforums and are going to start having more things available for us mazda owners. It would be interesting if they could be influenced to tune or make something plug and play for the 3 (since they only focus on the speed atm)
Oooo AccessPORT for the N/A MZ3's would be so sweet!
 
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After I get the header on, this is a must for me.
Me too. After the header and full cat back this will be the icing on the cake and my final mod. Well maybe my final mod. :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Warlord! I was totally gonna call BS, but you called it on your self. FINAL MOD! HAHAHAHAHA. Dude I've only been on this forum for a little while, but spent several years on a F-Body forum, 4G63 forum, Toyota forum, SRT4, forum, and Spec V forum....That being said, I KNOW your type! You got the skills to pay the bills dude and your mods will never be done. When you hit the (sad) "final mod", it will be when you trade her in!

Final mod! LMAO! You had me! I amlost thought you were serious!
 

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$75 for three dyno pulls with accurate a/f ratios is not unreasonable. The problem I see with the data logging scenario is that your going to have to put down a large depoisit on your credit card because he's going to send you a laptop. That and the fact that if you screw up the laptop somehow you own it. Plus the data won't be as accurate as the dyno info. Also with a before and after dyno sheet you'll be able to prove out the gains you wind up with instead of guessing. If the gains arent correct it's your right to send the ecu back till they get it right (not uncommon with a non generic just for your car custom tune). Bottom line is that if you want proof of a good tune you'll have to shell out a total of $150 for before and after dyno pulls along with the $500 for the tune. Tuning is voodoo as far as I'm concerened. I want proof of what I pay for so don't get gains in certain areas and losses in others.

LOL: 7 lb Weight Reduction (driver on diet) :tongue:
Ahh, no there is no large deposit for the dataloger, and we don't send a laptop out, LOL

Here is what we do; when you call us, we offer you the option of a OTS type remap, or a custom file for your car. They are the same exact price, with one slight exception. If you want the dataloged custom file, you can buy a datalog interface from us for your very own, or we will rent you our porfesional grade unit at 25$ a day, and you cover the freight. Most folks prefer to buy their own to keep.

With a dataloger in hand, we instruct you on the information to read, and the type of driving to do to get the correct data. Simple stuff, 20 mins or so then send us the data to look over.

As far as the dyno, before and after? Sure we stongly suggest you do it. Thats why we have two inhouse Dynapack Chassis dynos, and dynotuning is the core of our business.

Cheers!
 

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Smells of Elderberries
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Ahh, no there is no large deposit for the dataloger, and we don't send a laptop out, LOL

Here is what we do; when you call us, we offer you the option of a OTS type remap, or a custom file for your car. They are the same exact price, with one slight exception. If you want the dataloged custom file, you can buy a datalog interface from us for your very own, or we will rent you our porfesional grade unit at 25$ a day, and you cover the freight. Most folks prefer to buy their own to keep.

With a dataloger in hand, we instruct you on the information to read, and the type of driving to do to get the correct data. Simple stuff, 20 mins or so then send us the data to look over.

As far as the dyno, before and after? Sure we stongly suggest you do it. Thats why we have two inhouse Dynapack Chassis dynos, and dynotuning is the core of our business.

Cheers!
Glad to see you over here!!

Just out of curiosity... I might be able to gain access to a Innovative Motorsports LM-2 Would that unit be sufficient for the datalogging.

Also I have installed a 4-1 Header and get DTC's popping up at very random intervals due to the primary cat being removed. It will go 600mi one time without a code then the next week it will be on every other day... seems to change with fluctuations in the temperature. Still working on getting the first o2 moved to the collector and second o2 relocated further down stream after the secondary cat as the CEL eliminator or anti fouler tricks haven't worked consistently. Do you think you can still tune successfully with this issue if I can't get it resolved as long as I can keep it code free during the datalogging.
 

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Thanks for clearing that up. I'm interested as soon as a header and full catback are available. I'd like to get the most that I can out of this 2.5. Jackf's question becomes relevent for me too. Can I datalog with the car throwing cel's from a header, catless downpipe and exhaust? What does a data logger cost to buy?
 

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Glad to see you over here!!

Just out of curiosity... I might be able to gain access to a Innovative Motorsports LM-2 Would that unit be sufficient for the datalogging.

Also I have installed a 4-1 Header and get DTC's popping up at very random intervals due to the primary cat being removed. It will go 600mi one time without a code then the next week it will be on every other day... seems to change with fluctuations in the temperature. Still working on getting the first o2 moved to the collector and second o2 relocated further down stream after the secondary cat as the CEL eliminator or anti fouler tricks haven't worked consistently. Do you think you can still tune successfully with this issue if I can't get it resolved as long as I can keep it code free during the datalogging.
First, let me state this; with a well designed manifold that incorporates a good high flow cat, there is NO GAIN to runing without a catalist. In fact our testing shows that open(no cat) systems lose power to a properly tuned highflow cat system. And frankly, I'm not interested in paying the 10000.00 fine for running without one.

So here is the solution to your problems;
the front"02sensor" is really not an o2 sensor, its a WRAF sensor, or Wide Ratio Air Fuel sensor. It requires placement in the manifold just down stream of the exhaust ports, or interestingly enough, about where the factory put it. Funny how that works out!

The rear sensor is a simple 02, and its simply to check cat efficency. It also is the reason most people have the cels pop when they replace the cats.

So how do you fix it? Well on the Mazdaspeed2( yes 2, wink) we built a 4 into 2 into 1 and placed the WRAF in the runner for cly 2 about 3 inches from the port. The rear o2 sensor, we placed in a very trick holder that we sell that simulates the two cats being inplace. Problem solved.

Now, as an alternative, a good high flow cat placed downstream of the header will do the same trick, but you must lengthen the second o2 sensor to do this.

On the LM-2, yes that is the prefered unit to use. Good stuff. We also sell the little brother to the LM-2, the OT2
 

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Smells of Elderberries
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First, let me state this; with a well designed manifold that incorporates a good high flow cat, there is NO GAIN to runing without a catalist. In fact our testing shows that open(no cat) systems lose power to a properly tuned highflow cat system. And frankly, I'm not interested in paying the 10000.00 fine for running without one.

So here is the solution to your problems;
the front"02sensor" is really not an o2 sensor, its a WRAF sensor, or Wide Ratio Air Fuel sensor. It requires placement in the manifold just down stream of the exhaust ports, or interestingly enough, about where the factory put it. Funny how that works out!

The rear sensor is a simple 02, and its simply to check cat efficency. It also is the reason most people have the cels pop when they replace the cats.

So how do you fix it? Well on the Mazdaspeed2( yes 2, wink) we built a 4 into 2 into 1 and placed the WRAF in the runner for cly 2 about 3 inches from the port. The rear o2 sensor, we placed in a very trick holder that we sell that simulates the two cats being inplace. Problem solved.

Now, as an alternative, a good high flow cat placed downstream of the header will do the same trick, but you must lengthen the second o2 sensor to do this.

On the LM-2, yes that is the prefered unit to use. Good stuff. We also sell the little brother to the LM-2, the OT2


Thanks for the info... looking forward to getting tuned soon.

I think I found part of my problem my o2 was loose. I must have forgot to tighten it down all the way last time i was messing around. I replaced the crush washers on it and the o2 simulator and tightened them up good. Will see if that takes care of the codes.

I am currently running with the second Factory cat still in place with a Vibrant o2 simulator with adjustable "jets"....but when the weather breaks and I get some time I have a o2 sensor extension harness that I got from Casper Electronics and I have a 2.5" Mangnaflow metallic high flow cat to replace the factory unit that I welded a 2 bolt flange and a length of pipe to so I can put the bung for the sensor on it.

The header I have the A/F sensor is on primary #2 10 inches from the port, that is also approximately in the factory location only difference being on the factory manifold on the 2.5L the sensor is mounted at the "collector" right before it dumps into the primary cat.

I also agree on running catless. Even with the the 2nd factory cat in place I picked up 17.1hp and 16.5tq with good gains all cross the board with the header and catback. Plus it smells bad running catless.
 

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Thanks for all the great info! What types of gains have you seen on the 2.5L engines with and without mods?
the 2.5 we tested from Mazda was a brand new car with 78 miles. Durring testing we gained 23HP at the wheels with just a remap. The nice thing was the huge gain in area under the tq curve, which makes the car soooo much more fun to drive!

:tongue:
 

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I'm down to start modding my engine if some serious numbers start coming out. 20+ hp to the wheels with a remap is awesome! How about with an intake and exhaust?
we have not had anyone mod a 2.5 yet, but I would guess based on the 2.3 that you will find the exhaust is the biggest gain on these cars.
 

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Any more word on this?
 
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