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2012 Mazda 3 GT Skyactiv and 2016 Mazda 6 T, both OVTuned and Godspeed Coilovers, + more
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know I know, I had told myself that I was NOT going to boost this car... buuuuuut now I'm scheming :)
*cross posting from Mazda6 forum to get more input - Considering supercharer on the 6

Eventually I plan to get an NC2 Miata and make a boosted track monster with 15psi+, and I know the 6 will never be THAT, but after reading about the Kraftwerks complete supercharger kit for that car started to inspire me to do that to the 6. Instead of gaining +140hp, with this motor I think we're looking at only gaining +50hp

GOALS/POWER: A reasonable level of boost, figure at least +50hp, while maintaining longevity/daily-driver ability.

*UPDATE-
VT-Racing - Anrot Industries
A new Chinese manufacturer (bunch of products released in june 2019) of twin/screw superchargers for dozens of models of car, most don't apply to American markets, but includes a kit for 2.0L and 2.5L Skyactiv motors, at <6psi peak boost.

*UPDATE 3/5/21-

Still in regular contact with VT-Racing, working on possible ways to execute transactions.
They are working on detailed installation instructions, said they will have a draft for me at the end of March.
Installation looks fairly straightforward, mostly replace intake manifold with super and fit the radiators on. They claim their technicians can do the Skyactiv install in 90 minutes.
Obviously I'm expecting to take a LOT longer than that, since it'll be my first install and I will be VERY careful... But looks definitely DIY doable.

*Superchager Kit includes remote tuning via MazdaEdit, much like OVTune.

COST: with tariffs and working out details of making this happen, expect complete system to be $5k. (expect/hoping for 0-60 <5.5 sec, 1/4 mi < 13.8 sec)
IMG-20210223-WA0013.jpg IMG-20210223-WA0010.jpg IMG-20210223-WA0009.jpg IMG-20210223-WA0012.jpg mmexport1614968636179.jpg mmexport1614968201077.jpg

DRTuned will support tuning for forced induction for $999, if for any reason separate tuning is needed.

Systems Considerations/Thoughts
  • AIR - Intake/Throttle body/MAF: Stays same - the 2.5L already uses the same one as the 2.5T, so I think that'll work.
  • FUEL - Injectors/Pump: Stays same - I'm assuming the existing injectors could handle +25% duty cycle. If needed may try to use injectors from the 2.5T version.
    • Water/Meth Injection - May consider, but more in the nice to have category.
  • TUNING - DRTuned will support forced induction tuning for $999, plus the VT-Racing kit includes remote tuning using MazdaEdit
  • TRANSMISSION - should be ok, but going to change fluid more regularly to be cautious. AFAIK the same transmission is used in the 2.5T, all indications are that it can handle this just fine. It's less clear that the Manual transmission can handle the power though.
  • ENGINE - It's hard to know how much the internals of an engine can take, how over-engineered are the pistons/rods/connectors/etc. Currently targeting system that only runs 6psi max, which should be fine.
COST: $4,200-$8,000 $2,400 Supercharger - Rotrex C30
Rotrex Superchargers build their boost gradually as RPMs rise, so it's very gentle stresses on the engine/trans/drive shafts.
Plan to lower the redline to aid longevity (at least down to 6000rpm, likely even lower on my buddy's cx5 with different pulley size to give more boost at lower rpms)
Reference: 16psi doubles air volume, so every 1psi is 6.25% more air volume.
Example range of boost/rpm that I think would be very safe.
@3000rpm 2psi +12% air volume , ~7% real HP gain
@6000rpm 8psi +48% air volume (Redline, peak possible boost), ~29% real HP gain
estimation that 70% of are volume increase converts to power gain, so in above example that's a peak of 29% power gain
 

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Before you go spending that much money on parts, you really need to find out if it will work...chances are it won't. Nobody has yet successfully developed a forced induction tune solution to add either a supercharger or turbocharger to the SA-G engine outside of the kits for the 2.0 MX-5 ND platform, and thats a totally different ECU so that won't work. CorkSport has been trying for a couple years now with nothing really workable to show for it.

The NC2 is totally different, and has plenty of aftermarket support for just about everything. If you are going to spend that much money, the NC2 is the place to do it, not the Mazda 6.
 

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2012 Mazda 3 GT Skyactiv and 2016 Mazda 6 T, both OVTuned and Godspeed Coilovers, + more
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Discussion Starter #3
Before you go spending that much money on parts, you really need to find out if it will work...chances are it won't. Nobody has yet successfully developed a forced induction tune solution to add either a supercharger or turbocharger to the SA-G engine outside of the kits for the 2.0 MX-5 ND platform, and thats a totally different ECU so that won't work. CorkSport has been trying for a couple years now with nothing really workable to show for it.

The NC2 is totally different, and has plenty of aftermarket support for just about everything. If you are going to spend that much money, the NC2 is the place to do it, not the Mazda 6.
Those are fair points, but I'm probably 5+ years away from getting a dedicated fun car (3 teenagers, etc.), which got me thinking.
Also, there is extra appeal in making something totally unique.

As for the Corksport turbo, well turbo is a VERY different thing, and would be MUCH harder to make work (partially because of variable boost and especially because of the high compression ratio and the amount of work that Mazda did with the exhaust manifold to maximize scavenging to keep combustion chamber temps down).

As for tuning, well I've been through multiple rounds of remote tuning on both my 6 and my 3 with great results. In this case we would be targeting low boost that is completely predictable psi/rpm, which seems quite doable. I expect that using standard MazdaEdit path means we can't maximize power out of it like a fully mature power platform, but should be sufficient for this purpose.

I am under no illusion that this will be easy ;)
 

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A turbo is no different than a supercharger when it comes to tuning...both are forced induction (just accomplished by different means) and would present the same issues that would need to be addressed.
Tuning the naturally aspirated motor is not at all the same as tuning for forced induction. Before going any further, you need to discuss your options with some tuners, and not just any tuners. Have you talked to Rafael about this?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
A turbo is no different than a supercharger when it comes to tuning...both are forced induction (just accomplished by different means) and would present the same issues that would need to be addressed.
Tuning the naturally aspirated motor is not at all the same as tuning for forced induction. Before going any further, you need to discuss your options with some tuners, and not just any tuners. Have you talked to Rafael about this?
That's funny I was just sending email to him, and other potential tuners.

All due respect, yes turbo and supercharger both push air into the motor, but there is some major differences that make it vastly easier to tune for a super, and safer:
  1. A turbo impedes exhaust, causing back pressure, significantly increasing heat, particularly cumbustion chamber Temps.
  2. A turbo has variable boost at a given rpm, depending on throttle timing and spool
Thus a turbo is vastly more difficult to tune for... But yes I will ensure I have means to tune for it before spending a bunch of money on this 😁
 

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*The Electrician*
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If you figure this out, and somehow a kit came out of all this, Id totally be down for that😎
 
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I would be concerned with the transmission and the clutch. Corksport ran into issues and had to fabricate a clutch for their 2.5L gen 3 turbo car.

The RPM limitations will also be problematic, as the Skyactiv G engine loses power around 6k pretty fast.

Maybe get a MS3 and just upgrade the interior and electronics? Probably find a reasonable price for one and there is a large aftermarket for it.
CK
 

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I would be concerned with the transmission and the clutch. Corksport ran into issues and had to fabricate a clutch for their 2.5L gen 3 turbo car.

The RPM limitations will also be problematic, as the Skyactiv G engine loses power around 6k pretty fast.

Maybe get a MS3 and just upgrade the interior and electronics? Probably find a reasonable price for one and there is a large aftermarket for it.
CK
Dan has an automatic. Not sure if a/t for turbo (i.e. stock one from Mazda) has upgrades from a/t for naturally aspirated...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Dan has an automatic. Not sure if a/t for turbo (i.e. stock one from Mazda) has upgrades from a/t for naturally aspirated...
The automatic is thought to be the same for the 2.5T and much more capable of handling the extra power, AFAIK the automatic for the 2.5L and 2.5T are the same (perhaps different tune within the trans...)

We'll see where this goes...

It's looking cost prohibitive to try to make the Rotrex fit, and it would only potentially work in the 6, because the 3 & CX5 have even less under hood space.

There's a Chinese company that makes twin screw supercharger kit for 2.L Skyactiv, never exceeding 0.5bar (7psi), they claim +70hp +70tq
it's a sketchy path though, with a lot of unknowns, so I am thinking of working on group buy deal, where we pay a small deposit up front then only pay the bulk after the kit is installed and works...
 

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Those are fair points, but I'm probably 5+ years away from getting a dedicated fun car (3 teenagers, etc.), which got me thinking.
Also, there is extra appeal in making something totally unique.

As for the Corksport turbo, well turbo is a VERY different thing, and would be MUCH harder to make work (partially because of variable boost and especially because of the high compression ratio and the amount of work that Mazda did with the exhaust manifold to maximize scavenging to keep combustion chamber temps down).

As for tuning, well I've been through multiple rounds of remote tuning on both my 6 and my 3 with great results. In this case we would be targeting low boost that is completely predictable psi/rpm, which seems quite doable. I expect that using standard MazdaEdit path means we can't maximize power out of it like a fully mature power platform, but should be sufficient for this purpose.

I am under no illusion that this will be easy ;)
Who have you been using to tune Mazdaedit?
 

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I agree with @arathol ...that supercharging or turbo the 2.5L Sky engine will be challenging tuning it. Another option is standalone ECU like Haltech 1500, but even then im aware of tuners working on a 2.5L sky engine.
Have a look at what BBR GTI have been doing with their 2.0L non sky and sky BBR GTi for the NC.
Also have a look at XeroLimit where they have modified/supercharged 2.0L & 2.5L non sky and also sell supercharger kits : Xero Limit - Tuning & Performance Parts
Also check out FAB9 Tuning and their turbo kits for NC Fab9Tuning EFR V-Band Bottom Mount Turbo Kit (NC 06-15)
Do check the max compression that maximizes a supercharging ... i think its 12:1. Re-building or swapping your engine for a rebuilt ready engine is an option.

I am presently rebuilding a 2.0L non sky and possibly going to 12:1 (or staying at 10:1). Upgraging internals / rod bearings plus stiffer valve springsto increase redline
This build goal if rev past 8K but also keeping the future possibility to custom supercharge it with a Haltech 1500 ECU.

I just recalled after i posted this ... DRtuned does custom tunes for non sky , turbo engines. DRTuned Racing
Not sure if they can do a supercharged sky engine... I know they could do a supercharged non sky custom tune.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
I agree with @arathol ...that supercharging or turbo the 2.5L Sky engine will be challenging tuning it. Another option is standalone ECU like Haltech 1500, but even then im aware of tuners working on a 2.5L sky engine.
Have a look at what BBR GTI have been doing with their 2.0L non sky and sky BBR GTi for the NC.
Also have a look at XeroLimit where they have modified/supercharged 2.0L & 2.5L non sky and also sell supercharger kits : Xero Limit - Tuning & Performance Parts
Also check out FAB9 Tuning and their turbo kits for NC Fab9Tuning EFR V-Band Bottom Mount Turbo Kit (NC 06-15)
Do check the max compression that maximizes a supercharging ... i think its 12:1. Re-building or swapping your engine for a rebuilt ready engine is an option.

I am presently rebuilding a 2.0L non sky and possibly going to 12:1 (or staying at 10:1). Upgraging internals / rod bearings plus stiffer valve springsto increase redline
This build goal if rev past 8K but also keeping the future possibility to custom supercharge it with a Haltech 1500 ECU.

I just recalled after i posted this ... DRtuned does custom tunes for non sky , turbo engines. DRTuned Racing
Not sure if they can do a supercharged sky engine... I know they could do a supercharged non sky custom tune.
Yep, I've already gotten a response from DRTuned saying he can do it, if I can get a supercharger kit worked out!


Who have you been using to tune Mazdaedit?
OVTune, but it's also what DRTuned uses. It should be sufficient control for a super, based on what they've done just with me running extra high octane!
 

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I have not heard good things about DRTuned and SkyActive engines. Mainly that OVT can do a much cleaner tune, so that's what I'd be looking for if I was you.
 

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Yep, I've already gotten a response from DRTuned saying he can do it, if I can get a supercharger kit worked out!



OVTune, but it's also what DRTuned uses. It should be sufficient control for a super, based on what they've done just with me running extra high octane!
Correct ... the skyactiv will pose more difficulty for supercharging but not impossible ... the higher compression become limiting more technical to manage . But i have read cars on MOTEC ecu with NA engines at 15:1 compression. Supercharging on a non sky with mazdedit should be no issues. The issue is no Rotrex kits out there for a FWD 2.0/2.5L mazda engine. I asked Kraftwerk about the NC kit and would most components fit a FWD confirguration and got no answer. The biggest issue is installing pulleys that work the rotrex and location will be on the opposite side of the intake ... here is how it looks on a NC: Kraftwerks MX5 Supercharger
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Correct ... the skyactiv will pose more difficulty for supercharging but not impossible ... the higher compression become limiting more technical to manage . But i have read cars on MOTEC ecu with NA engines at 15:1 compression. Supercharging on a non sky with mazdedit should be no issues. The issue is no Rotrex kits out there for a FWD 2.0/2.5L mazda engine. I asked Kraftwerk about the NC kit and would most components fit a FWD confirguration and got no answer. The biggest issue is installing pulleys that work the rotrex and location will be on the opposite side of the intake ... here is how it looks on a NC: Kraftwerks MX5 Supercharger
Ya the skyactiv is limited in how much boost I think would be safe, 8si may be too much.
For the Rotrex we were evaluating custom fabricating a bracket for it to fit, but you'd have to move a lot of lines and the ABS unit which is a lot of extra cost/risk/work.

I'm hoping the Chinese company I'm in contact with is for real, though I am proceeding very cautiously, they claim to have a twin-screw supercharger for the 2.5L skyactiv engine that runs at 6psi giving 240WHP (+70), with liquid to air intercooler for $4k+

Here's claimed images of install
IMG-20210221-WA0004.jpg IMG-20210221-WA0000.jpg IMG-20210221-WA0002.jpg IMG-20210221-WA0006.jpg FB_IMG_1613854191921.jpg FB_IMG_1613854178900.jpg FB_IMG_1613854174276.jpg FB_IMG_1613854169066.jpg
 

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Ya the skyactiv is limited in how much boost I think would be safe, 8si may be too much.
For the Rotrex we were evaluating custom fabricating a bracket for it to fit, but you'd have to move a lot of lines and the ABS unit which is a lot of extra cost/risk/work.

I'm hoping the Chinese company I'm in contact with is for real, though I am proceeding very cautiously, they claim to have a twin-screw supercharger for the 2.5L skyactiv engine that runs at 6psi giving 240WHP (+70), with liquid to air intercooler for $4k+

Here's claimed images of install
View attachment 280801 View attachment 280808 View attachment 280802 View attachment 280803 View attachment 280804 View attachment 280805 View attachment 280806 View attachment 280807
Interesting !!
I'd be on board if they have a race proven model. Like Xerolimit has with the NC.

Right now i'll stick to increasing compression and redline ... make the HP in the redline with the 2.0L
Im also having the intake exhaust flow ported... hopefully resulting in a balanced engine
and ready for the Rotrex later
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Interesting !!
I'd be on board if they have a race proven model. Like Xerolimit has with the NC.

Right now i'll stick to increasing compression and redline ... make the HP in the redline with the 2.0L
Im also having the intake exhaust flow ported... hopefully resulting in a balanced engine
and ready for the Rotrex later
Interesting, how are you having it "ported", curious what difference you would feel especially in high rpm
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So the Chinese supercharger saga continues...
VT-Racing - Anrot Industries
The company is legit shipping all over Asia
They came onto the business sector with supercharger kits for like 20-30 engine models,
Most are not even applicable to US models
Except both 2.0 and 2.5 skyactiv engines are included!!!
But no precedent for delivery to US yet!

I had a friend that is from China call them, basically they are already selling all their stock in Asia. No established means to exchange funds and handle claimed 2yr warranty...
We'll see where this goes...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Underneath the company only makes 3 sizes of supercharger + inter-cooler/heat-pump across couple dozen supported models (based on engine displacement) , then simply cast a different mold for the mount and shape of intake manifold.
It appears all of their systems run at 6psi and are essentially safe on any of the targeted motors. It has a little water pump in the twin-screw supercharger assembly the supposedly pulls a lot of heat out of the intake. Peak psi 2,500-5,000rpm (HP keeps going up to red line, but the torque slowly goes down).
 

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Interesting, how are you having it "ported", curious what difference you would feel especially in high rpm
Gord Bush Performance (GBP) will be looking at doing the porting and see if it is worth doing it on the 2.0L head.
Here is an example of GBP porting a stock head vs stock flow and vs a aftermarket head for the Onepoint Kels 350Z project
 
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