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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So yes, I think it is time to check and discuss what is the best time some of us have recorded 0-200km , I mean of course totally irrelevant since these cars are not performance machines but we wished!, let's not deny that 0:)

So here is the back story, I was speeding with this 1.8L Turbocharge Seat Leon FR 180hp (basically a VW Golf), took some considerable lead over the Seat approx. 70-100 meters (he let me basically), then saw on my rearview mirror he was catching up hard on me , so I hit full gas at 120km, to my approximation the Seat hit full gas at about 90km, so not only did he closed the gap regarding distance but he overtook me at 177km/ hour :surprise: , I was like, damn that is a great VW engine in an affordable package.

Also I was surprise that at such speed (177km/h) my tuned Mazda with AC ON and 1 Passenger had a trouble developing more speed in 4th gear 5th gear top rpm range, I wished that this car had a turbo in that same moment lol :001_rolleyes:

Therefore I took the time and curiosity to find out how much some of the members here have done 0-200km. As per the internet I have seen Mazdas'3 2.0L and 2.5L recording pretty much the same time 40seconds 0-200km. For those interested that Seat Leon makes 0-200km in about 30 seconds, almost a 10 seconds difference to our cars.

Now, let's have a nice chat regarding this unnecessary performance stat shall we :vtec228 1:

*Moral of the story ---> 2.0L or 2.5L NA can't compete with >1.8L turbo charged engines. 1.5L Turbo charged engines are in par pretty much with a 2.0L.
 

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I don't have stats on 0-200, but if you are going to race, keep the AC off lol. There seems to be large parasitic loss with ACs on skyactivs, and I don't believe it gets disabled in wot like other cars. Also, passengers can affect power more than we think. Assuming a common rule of thumb that every 10 lb gain is the effect of 1 hp loss, than a 200 lb passenger would take off 20 hp, which can be more than the tune makes. I find an extra large sized passenger to be not that noticeable in 200+ hp cars, but I notice it in my skyactiv 2.0 under wot. Two to three extra passengers makes it feel sluggish on the highway in the summer.

The one thing to note about VW (and other European brand) hp ratings is that they are usually underrated compared to Asian and American brands. From what I've seen, the numbers posted by the manufacturer are similar to what the vehicle makes to the wheels based on dyno results. So that 180 hp 1.8T is more comparable to a approx. 200 hp Mazda. Those 210 hp GTI Golf's can do 0-60 in just under 6s which shows just how underrated they are.
 
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I have a Ford probe GT Manual with a 2.5l that i was trying to see how quick it could go but at about 120 km/h, and 1/4 mile from the intersection i turned at, i passed 4 cars.... well 3 cars and a cop car. suffice to say i got a ticket for 48 Km over the speed limit. and that was the last time i did that. LOL
 

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well i think that's where you're wrong.

the 2.0 may not but the 2.5 sure can. i've pulled a mk 6 GTI at 150km/h. it wasn't much, but i pulled about half a car length on him. it was a spur of the moment coming out of a right turn onto a straight. the speed before i hit the brakes was about 190ish. another time, i've managed to keep up with an SSV (6.2 LS3) from 40 to about 130km/hr before he starting pulling away slowly..

then again, i'm on a good behaviour (can't get any demerits), so at the moment i'm not willing to risk any unnecessary stupidity all the time as i'm about a couple months away before getting back on my normal license. unfortunately, it's a revenue raising scheme here in oz, where they hide cameras behind bushes and such. so you'd never know when they're gonna get you..
 

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The one thing to note about VW (and other European brand) hp ratings is that they are usually underrated compared to Asian and American brands. From what I've seen, the numbers posted by the manufacturer are similar to what the vehicle makes to the wheels based on dyno results. So that 180 hp 1.8T is more comparable to a approx. 200 hp Mazda. Those 210 hp GTI Golf's can do 0-60 in just under 6s which shows just how underrated they are.
not based on what i know. the european cars tend to overstate their numbers but the japanese understate them. from the european cars i've ran on dyno, f10 m5 e90 m3, the numbers at the wheels plus drivetrain loss seems to be about 30-50 under what their posted figures were. but then again, it also depends on the dyno used..
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
well i think that's where you're wrong
Quiet the opposite, that's where you are wrong, the topic is about 0-200km, a GTI from 0-200km eats the 2.5L alive, let's stay real here shall we, I doubt that the GTI even tried to be honest :wheelchair:


GTI 23.54secs 0-200km, the 2.5L is a peppier engine but it cannot be compared to a 1.8L or 2.0L turbocharged engine.
 

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Quiet the opposite, that's where you are wrong, the topic is about 0-200km, a GTI from 0-200km eats the 2.5L alive, let's stay real here shall we, I doubt that the GTI even tried to be honest :wheelchair:

well he definitely did. because at the end he was trying to ask me what i did to my car.. not sure if he could hear my reply with the wind though.. i'm not too sure if you're trying to compare from a 0, ie from a complete standstill, because in that case, i'll never be able to pull away as quickly with an open diff. but with a rolling start and in the right rev range, i'll have him all day long..

also, beyond power figures. bare in mind that tyres and suspensions play a huge part in how you put the figures down to the road..

anyway i've been meaning to get a vbox to gather some figures on the move. because driving alone, it's impossible and stupid to record and drive..
 

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not based on what i know. the european cars tend to overstate their numbers but the japanese understate them. from the european cars i've ran on dyno, f10 m5 e90 m3, the numbers at the wheels plus drivetrain loss seems to be about 30-50 under what their posted figures were. but then again, it also depends on the dyno used..
That maybe the case for the BMW's you mentioned, but not for modern VW engines which is what the OP was referring to. Both the 2.0T and 1.8T hp numbers reported by the manufacturer are more like what the engine makes at the wheels, and this is backed up by the acceleration these cars achieve.

For example, the 2015 Golf 1.8T manual hits 0-60 in 6.8s and weighs around the same as a Mazda 3 2.5L. Its only rated for 170 hp, and accelerates faster than a 184 hp 2.5L Mazda3 manual (7.4s). Note that VW manuals tend to be geared tall, so the difference can't be attributed to gearing. Here are 2 websites that comment about how underrated that VW engine it is. They also show that the engine makes more than 180 whp which makes sense for the acceleration. There are many other dyno's posted like this, so they can't all be explain by the dyno's they are using.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Volkswagen..._golf_tsi_18t_base_stock_dyno_results_185_hp/
2016 Golf TSI 1.8T (base) Stock Dyno Results - GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-mazda-3-25l-manual-hatchback-long-term-test-wrap-up

I could show you similar websites showing how the 210 or 220 hp versions of the VW Golf GTI 2.0 punch well ahead of their advertised numbers according to acceleration and dyno figures. As for Japanese NA cars near the Mazda 3 class, there aren't many out there that are underrated.
 
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That maybe the case for the BMW's you mentioned, but not for modern VW engines which is what the OP was referring to. Both the 2.0T and 1.8T hp numbers reported by the manufacturer are more like what the engine makes at the wheels, and this is backed up by the acceleration these cars achieve.
well, it's nothing new for VW to underestimate stuff, especially with diesel emissions... :p sorry i just had to.

well, i'm not a huge fan of VW to be honest, so i could sound a little bias. but i'm sure with that group, audi as such, do overrate their numbers. i haven't had any experience with audi dynos but from a video when they compared an audi to a bmw on the dyno, they both had overstated paper figures.

with that said, the only engine i'm in awe from VW is the 1.4 turbo and supercharged (together) engines in their jetta around the 08-10 period... (i think) that thing was quick off the lines as well.. not sure if you had those wherever you are..
 

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well, it's nothing new for VW to underestimate stuff, especially with diesel emissions... :p sorry i just had to.

well, i'm not a huge fan of VW to be honest, so i could sound a little bias. but i'm sure with that group, audi as such, do overrate their numbers. i haven't had any experience with audi dynos but from a video when they compared an audi to a bmw on the dyno, they both had overstated paper figures.

with that said, the only engine i'm in awe from VW is the 1.4 turbo and supercharged (together) engines in their jetta around the 08-10 period... (i think) that thing was quick off the lines as well.. not sure if you had those wherever you are..
Yeah, I'm no fan of VW either, mainly due to reliability and ethics. Just wanted to share my thoughts on why those turbo engines are better than expected in relation to the OPs post. Audi (VW group) is similar case- their recent engines are underrated. Look at the S3 that is rated for 292 hp, but keeps up with cars that have 50 hp more hp and similar weight. Same thing for the heavier S4 with either the turbo or supercharged engine. I also suspect the same for the new RS3 that is rated for 400 hp, yet does 0-60 in ~3.5s and ~12 s quarter mile. Yes, AWD helps, but the car surpasses or at least keeps up with American muscle cars like the Camaro SS and Mustang GT that have >50 hp advantage. Same with their 2.0T that they put in most entry level cars. The >3600 lb Audi A4 2.0T does 0-60 in around 5s with just 252 hp. Definitely somewhat underrated.

https://www.caranddriver.com/review...and-transmission-review-car-and-driver-page-2
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah, I'm no fan of VW either, mainly due to reliability and ethics
I share the same view as you, The Volkswagen Group is the cancer of automobile industry, without counting their super luxurious brands such as Bentley, Porsche, Lamborghini, I rank their products category as follows: Skoda--->Seat--->VW---> Audi. IMHO opinion I consider Audi as the start of their luxury portfolio. For example a Leon Cupra is basically a Golf R and a Golf R is basically an Audi S3.

Pretty much they place the same engine on every brand they hold but on a different package and with a different name to attract pretty much every possible buyer group in that category. Here in Israel "Arsim" or the equivalent of "********" in the USA in look for affordable performance buy Seats because they cannot afford a VW Golf GTI, so they tune their cars and pretty much that Seat Leon FR 1.8LT becomes a Golf GTI for about 1000USD. Buy yourself a Seat Leon Cupra with 290HP here for about 65,000USD, tune it and you pretty much have the equivalent in performance (not the same engine of course) of a Audi RS3 which costs here 115,000USD in Israel.

My point here is that the engines of these cars as Skyactiver has very well pointed out are powerful, and 2.0L NA or 2.5L NA pretty much cannot be compared to those engines in terms of performance. Especially, specific to Israel where these "Arsim" are anything but common as the dirt that you found on the road, they think they drive Audis's S3, contant reckless driving , and not to mention the ego they hold, and that is why IMHO the VW group is the cancer of automobile industry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I did a WOT against a Honda S2000, no doubt the Honda smokes the Mazda, but in either case the Mazda can hold it's ground quiet well against the S2000 when taking into consideration that the latter is lighter, has a better engine and overall it's the epitome of Honda's performance in the 2000's.
 
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