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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
After that hype of the New York Auto Show and following disappointment (as stated by many members here), they followed that up next day with an assumed fan-exclusive email saying "Not just a new car. A whole new direction". I imagined it would be a new car announcement or the oh-so-wanted Mazdaspeed3 that everyone is clamoring for. Instead, it was just a new commercial for their "Feel Alive" slogan that they are pushing for. I felt that was really misleading to talk about a new car and direction without actually announcing one, and it was surely done on purpose. I like the "Zoom Zoom" slogan they have always had and I'm not so happy that they are totally ignoring the performance sector to be more like Lexus/Acura with luxury-based vehicles for the mainstream audience. Thoughts?
 

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Commercials are a response to dealers not moving enough cars. Mazda announced a big push with marketing and commercials since sales slowed down end of last year.

MS3 is dead. Plenty of articles with Mazda spokespeople confirm that. Next big thing will be a crossover built in the Mazda-Toyota factory that's set to open in Alabama sometime in near future.

Edit: I forgot, they did reveal the facelifted CX3. So yeah, don't expect much more until the next gen 3 is unveiled.
 

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Edit: I forgot, they did reveal the facelifted CX3. So yeah, don't expect much more until the next gen 3 is unveiled.
I think that would be Gen 4. I doubt they will keep the same configuration for more than 6 years.
 
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I think that would be Gen 4. I doubt they will keep the same configuration for more than 6 years.
I think what he's saying is the next generation of Mazda 3 which is coming at some point or another ;)

As to Mazda not building anything interesting such as a new speed 3, I don't like it but I can understand why. The speed was an amazing car. It's also a very niche market. Let's face it, they're not going to move a lot of those. Mazda would have to put significant money and time into designing a new one and the return on that investment is likely small. Or they can put that money into building a new 3, Cx- 3, or cx-5 which have far better rates of sale. They also already have the mx-5 to fill that role of a 'sports car' if you want to call it that.

Unfortunately it all comes down to the dollar. They're trying to grow at a furious rate like Hyundai did about 15 years ago. That means making cars that will sell en mass even if they are boring.
 

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I think Mazda is at a similar place with VW. They are much maligned for particular issues (check engine lights for VW, rust for Mazda), puts driver engagement (Fahrvergnuegen, zoom-zoom), a bit cheaper than the more upscale German/Japanese counterparts.

The difference is VW Group has deeper pockets and knows how to actually build luxury cars (and you see a lot of it being trickled down to VW).

The Mazda3 is a difficult proposition. The reason I bought it is because it's a 4 door Miata. Cheap, light on its feet, things you can enjoy on nice twisty roads. However, not many people commute through twisty roads so that doesn't really sell. What they really need to do, with the death of the Mazdaspeed program, is make a better car for the masses. It doesn't need to improve much on the reliability front, design is great, so just make a more upscale car. Add some decent sound deadening, don't use cable releases for everything.
 

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I don't know about outside the US, but here most all the car marketing and advertising is ridiculous and overdone IMO, from the hyper masculine voice overs in pickup commercials to the promises of liberty/freedom/transcendence promised by purchasing a luxury-brand car. I can't turn that crap off quick enough.

If I'm disappointed, it's with Mazda's refusal to offer the 3 in an "enthusiast" trim i.e. w/the essential performance stuff, MT, and minimal bells and whistles. My 2006 Touring has the big engine, big wheels, big brakes, leather shifter & steering wheel, cloth, no sunroof. I think Mazda stopped offering this type of trim around 2010.

The 2018 Touring is a step in the right direction. But choosing MT obligates you to purchase sunroof/BOSE, while AT means you can skip the sunroof/BOSE - just the opposite of what it should be.

Meanwhile, you can pick up a base WRX, Focus ST, Si, or GTI with the essential performance stuff, MT, cloth, and no sunroof. All great performance values. And all 4 of those companies offer an even higher performance trim (STI, RS, Type R, Golf R).
 
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I don't know about outside the US, but here most all the car marketing and advertising is ridiculous and overdone IMO, from the hyper masculine voice overs in pickup commercials to the promises of liberty/freedom/transcendence promised by purchasing a luxury-brand car. I can't turn that crap off quick enough.

If I'm disappointed, it's with Mazda's refusal to offer the 3 in an "enthusiast" trim i.e. w/the essential performance stuff, MT, and minimal bells and whistles. My 2006 Touring has the big engine, big wheels, big brakes, leather shifter & steering wheel, cloth, no sunroof. I think Mazda stopped offering this type of trim around 2010.

The 2018 Touring is a step in the right direction. But choosing MT obligates you to purchase sunroof/BOSE, while AT means you can skip the sunroof/BOSE - just the opposite of what it should be.

Meanwhile, you can pick up a base WRX, Focus ST, Si, or GTI with the essential performance stuff, MT, cloth, and no sunroof. All great performance values. And all 4 of those companies offer an even higher performance trim (STI, RS, Type R, Golf R).
TBH I am the opposite of you. I want my car manual and with some of the bells and whistles like HID, LED lights, leather seats, better audio. I just do not want the "safety" features.
 

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Don't let the "safety features" scare you, they are not intrusive and can be turned off anyway.
 

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Most of those safety features will be standard and/or required in all cars anyway in the next couple of years per DOT. When you think about it, there are quite a few $50 to $100K cars from just a couple of years ago which may find their resale drop significantly further because they are lacking what are becoming standard safety features in today's all classes of cars.

And yes they can be turned off/and or adjusted to the type of driving. I felt the way you did before buying my Mazda as I didn't need that stuff, but have actually come to realize it's all good stuff and glad we made the upgrade as it does work.

Digressing even further though, I wouldn't be surprised if the government goes even further in the future, and takes away the ability to make some of those "adjustments" i.e. on/off in the safety settings of newer cars as that tends to be the natural progression for big brother to control.
 

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Mazda has a certain crowd that they're adhering to right now, and it isn't the performance crowd. They want to build practical, reliable daily driver cars for the average American. The show they put on is for that crowd specifically, in my opinion. If performance is your aim, Mazda isn't for you in it's current state. I love my 3, I think it's a great reliable daily. Don't get me wrong, I envy the GTI, FoST/FiST, WRX/STI guys as much as the next person mainly because of the sheer power they have. But I've had pretty bad experiences with Volkswagen in the past (Pre-TSI days), plus all the issues popping up with the FoST/FiST deter me from buying one, and don't get me started on WRX/STI repair bills (pssst, hey kid, want some head gaskets?).

I'll be sticking with my Mazda for the rest of the year, but come next year I might get into something a little more fast and fun. If Mazda doesn't have anything out by then that fits the bill (that isn't the 2.5T MZ6), I'll probably look at another brand for my next car.

RIP Mazdaspeed, you were fun while you lasted.
 

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Zs_3, to your point Mazda has explicitly advertised on multiple occasions, in different forums, that they are trying to build a brand where people come back to AND where all the demands of each driver, age group, and generation make individuals and families consider multiple Mazdas...they're definitely not there yet as I see at least 2 or 3 models they are lacking including the MS equivalent, an M6 wagon which is in concept and probably another crossover. They might possibly get away with a larger luxury sedan, while avoiding the epic failure of VW's $120K W12 Phaeton disaster...like who is going to buy a $120K Volkswagen luxury car or a Mazda for that matter?
 

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I think what he's saying is the next generation of Mazda 3 which is coming at some point or another ;)

As to Mazda not building anything interesting such as a new speed 3, I don't like it but I can understand why. The speed was an amazing car. It's also a very niche market. Let's face it, they're not going to move a lot of those. Mazda would have to put significant money and time into designing a new one and the return on that investment is likely small. Or they can put that money into building a new 3, Cx- 3, or cx-5 which have far better rates of sale. They also already have the mx-5 to fill that role of a 'sports car' if you want to call it that.

Unfortunately it all comes down to the dollar. They're trying to grow at a furious rate like Hyundai did about 15 years ago. That means making cars that will sell en mass even if they are boring.

This.


You guys have to understand. Mazda hasn't always been under it's own ownership. It was at one point partly owned by Ford. And become friends with any Mazda Service Dept, damn near each one will cringe when a MazdaSpeed variant comes into the shop. The engines may have been fun when they were working -- but they were riddled with problems and a Ford product. And to be truthful, I don't mean Ford products are bad, but when it comes to Mazda reliability vs. Ford reliability -- Mazda wins.


Mazda has to be wise with its moves right now. They control their own destiny and don't have the deep pockets of Ford to help them anymore. Their 2.5L motor is plenty peppy in its stock form. Many automotive magazines compliment it. Is it Fast? Absolutely not. Is it impressive for what it is along with its reliability and economy while still managing to squeeze decent output? Absolutely. Hell, my wife actually believes her CX-5 is quick (I chuckle, but she's happy with it). And that's really who Mazda wants. They want people like my wife - not people like us that keep begging for turbos in our Mazda3. To further that point, how many of us would actually buy one? We ask and ask and ask and for what? So we can go stare at it at the dealership? I'd be willing to bet that car would be like $30k+. So let's pretend Mazda answers our prayers... is everyone on this forum in a position to go out and buy a 30k car? I highly doubt it. So we'll just window shop the cars, but that doesn't help Mazda's bottom line.


The group of us that consists on this forum are literally the Niche segment of the Niche brand (if that makes sense). Mazda has done a great job of managing their business. I'll also say though, Mazda has probably made more leaps and strides over the last generation of models (2014+) than any other brand. The fact they stuck a turbo in the Mazda6 actually surprised me significantly. The upscale to premium is Mazda's desire to change its identity and redefine its brand. It wants to move towards premium, not boy-racer performance. They want their cars to begin to be seen as premium and sophisticated. This is not something they can accomplish overnight. There has to be many years and continual investment in technology to make the move to premium worth it. Mazda has shown they can achieve long-term goals.


Further evidenced when Mazda set out to be the most fuel efficient brand in the market. They did it. They won. They achieved one of their strategic visions -- a hard thing for any company to accomplish in today's constantly changing and competitive business arena. They are not going to be one of the most fuel efficient brands by adding turbochargers to everything. But they can be one of/the most fuel efficient brand and instill a premium feel and finish to their cars -- it's still niche. Normally premium is associated with performance. So it's a little bit of a paradigm shift and definitely niche.


In the end, Mazdaspeed is dead. It's not Mazda's goal anymore. Mazda wants to be efficient, fun, and premium. Fun in this case is a peppy car, not fast, not brute power, but peppy. And they got it. For those of us looking for more, this is probably not the brand anymore. Mazda can create whatever feel-good marketing campaign they want, but in the end, it's about them remaining profitable, pleasing their shareholders, and they'll need to find a good mix of "listening to our fans" and "achieving fiduciary responsibility for maintaining profits for their shareholders."


Try not to be disappointed guys, but be happy and enthusiastic that Mazda is one of the few car brands in the world that is small, their own identity, and knows how to play the game. They're not owned by anyone but themselves (and of course shareholders).
 
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Mazda needs to start appealing to their speed enthusiasts. End of story.

They grew their brand with the Zoom-Zoom logo, the RX-7 and the Mazdaspeed lines. Reliability, handling and styling helped too, but the Zoom-Zoom factor was always key.

They need to bring some of that love back by offering higher trim packages that are more focused on performance and their fan base. It would still be the same base car, so they would still have their car for the masses, but us speed freaks could get a turbo, upgraded brakes and handling features. Maybe even sport seats.

I mean, the turbo is already in production for the same 2.5L engine that is in the 3, so that should be a pretty simple swap and the rest just requires Mazda to work with some aftermarket parts companies for the design and supply. They could even make this a special order deal, where you select the base trim model you want and they slap on all of the extras in Japan or Mexico and ship the completed car to you. How cool would that be?
CK
 

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The fact we are getting the 6 with the 2.5T is a nice start. The Miata is getting a major HP boost. Also, if they do the Skyactiv-X in a 2.5, say in the 3, that could be getting over 200hp. I think mazda is heading in the right direction with all around power gains - they seem to be listening. I agree mazdaspeed won't be showing up anytime soon, that's OK with me. Just having a overall more grunt will go along way.

I could have gotten a WRX at similar price, but it would have been barebones. At this stage i need the car to be a nice place to spend time in, if for nothing more than to please the wife when we go out. Mazda 3 2.5 GT worked out perfectly for me. I can have fun driving it, still scoot along plenty fast, and the interior and exterior are spot on.
 

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...At this stage i need the car to be a nice place to spend time in, if for nothing more than to please the wife when we go out. Mazda 3 2.5 GT worked out perfectly for me. I can have fun driving it, still scoot along plenty fast, and the interior and exterior are spot on.
Spot on. With a 75 mile round trip commute daily, I just want the car to be a nice place to spend time in. The new Mazda6 hits that on all angles. Couldn't have asked for a better car.
 

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I myself being not only a driving enthusiast, but I am also a racing enthusiast. All in all the 2.5L 6spd(manual) Mazda 3 does a spectacular job making my daily commute fun. Sport seats? Pfffff get a CG-Lock and you will quickly learn that sport seats are just not required, period. The CG lock is easily removed too, personally I've had my CG-Lock installed since day 1 and it has never once bothered me. The power sure it could have more, say like the Skyactiv-X that is coming out real quick here. As others said, if they put it in the 2.5L it should be over 200HP, and its got a supercharger, a few light mods and she'll scream real nice. How is that not Mazda answering our desires for more power and more fun? Mazda 6 Turbo anyone? I have driven many FWD cars in autocross and rallycross, this Mazda 3 has exceptional balance and grip(if you have the tires for it). It picks up power off the line very quickly, not waiting for boost lag or VTEC lag, or VTEC boost lag lol. We get peak power very quickly in the 2.5L and you can't argue with that. If you wanted more power, u should have bought something boosted, its that simple. My 2017 Mazda 3, while it lacks the power I had in a previous 2009 Cobalt SS Turbo, which was exceptionally fast, fast enough to out drag STi's on highway pulls stock for stock, the Cobalt lacked the overall refinement that Mazda has crafted in their current lineup of vehicles. I would even say that the top of line Mazda interior is above and beyond what Cadillac offers. Its better materials, better fit/finish, better laid out interior, shall I keep going? Even BMW/Merc/Audi owners will say its on par with what their German luxury models have to offer. In fact its one of the top brands people are buying when they are sick of paying luxury car premiums. And really if you want raw power and "sport seats" go pickup a cheap Cobalt SS Turbo, put the stage kit on it, and enjoy your power for a fraction of the cost of anything newer like FoST/GTi(R)/WRX(STi). At some point you have to ask yourself what do you REALLY want? Raw power for cheap? Refinement? A solid DD? The current Mazda 3 is a home run, knocked right out of the park and into the next timezone. You cannot get anything better for the price point. Add to that, the base Mazda 3 all the way to the top GT model, same suspension, does anyone else do that? I seriously doubt it, Mazda could have cheap'd out but they did not want to take away from the overall joy when driving. Bottom line Mazda is kicking ass.
 

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The 2.5T is not a sports engine. It behaves more like a diesel. Torque output starts dropping at 4500rpm and is pretty much done by 5500rpm. Putting that engine into a 3 is not going to make it into a MazdaSpeed.

Mazda currently does not have another engine to use to achieve a MazdaSpeed. And, it probably would not be able to recoup costs to develop one, because the MazdaSpeed would not be a big seller. Arguably, the complete Mazda3 line is no longer a big seller.
 

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I have been very happy with Mazda so far. When my 3 is paid off next year, I plan on keeping it in the family. What I might do is swap vehicles with my mother. Her POS mITSubiSHIT RVR is a rusting out turd. I give her the more reliable car, take her POS and trade it in for something else.
At the moment I'm looking at the Lexus IS 250 RWD or 350 AWD, the Genesis G70 2.0T or the 3.3 TT AWD.
AWD is standard on the V6's up here in Canada.
 
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