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I have owned Gen1, Gen2 Mazda3 in the past. Currently have 2016 Mazda3 GT, lease about to be up soon. Test drove the 2019 Mazda3 Preferred. Overall, very nice, love the new interior except for the price...
For the same price as 2019, has anyone considered looking into few year old Audi A4, Lexus IS, or BMW 3 series?
Any thoughts?

I test drove used A4 and IS300. IMO, although Mazda3 are well made car and handles well, A4 and IS felt more solid and sturdy.
 

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I have owned Gen1, Gen2 Mazda3 in the past. Currently have 2016 Mazda3 GT, lease about to be up soon. Test drove the 2019 Mazda3 Preferred. Overall, very nice, love the new interior except for the price...
For the same price as 2019, has anyone considered looking into few year old Audi A4, Lexus IS, or BMW 3 series?
Any thoughts?

I test drove used A4 and IS300. IMO, although Mazda3 are well made car and handles well, A4 and IS felt more solid and sturdy.
Well all the cars you listed have reliability issues...Lexus would be the best out of the 3 you listed for reliability! But Mazda is far ahead in that department. Also the tech in them would be dated compared to the Mazda 3.. And parts for those cars are way over priced...
 

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Some nice cars but as others said they have reliability issues. If you plan on keeping the car more than a couple years I would take the Mazda hands down. The cost of maintenance on a Mazda is less than the other cars you listed. I have had my 2014 Mazda 3 since new and drive the piss out of it without any issues.
 

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Audi's are not made to last.. BMW's are expensive as hell to maintain... The Lexus IS is reliable and well liked by their owners..

A 2018 Mazda 3 GT has all of the tech and priced much less than a 2019..
CK
 

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First rule of buying used cars-
NEVER buy anything made by BMW or Audi that is out of warranty.:w00t:
Yeah
I avoid European marques out of warranty unless you really like getting intimate with car through maintenance / repair
 

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A4 and IS felt more solid and sturdy.
Are you translating curb weight and sound insulation to the feeling of "solid and sturdy"?

Mazda3 is roughly 600+lbs lighter than both the A4 and the IS300.

Heft may be your cup of tea, but I enjoy lightness in a car. Have you driven a car less than 3000lbs? It's so fun.
 

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For 30K there are a lot of options. Audi and BMW are both fine cars. The benchmarks. All the talk of german car reliability issues reminds me of the Mazda rust issue talk I always hear, meaning it's a tad out-dated.
 

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meaning it's a tad out-dated.
I hope so. I'd like to give them a shot but am always turned away from anecdotal experiences from my neighbors and the independent service professionals I correspond with who primarily service cars that are out of manufacturer warranty. They continue to admonish against European makes.

I think it's just the nature of the beast. Luxury cars are by nature more complex. Complex systems by nature have higher probability of failure. I think Germans cars are engineered well, perhaps overly so, but I don't think they're up to snuff with, say, Toyota, in terms of manufacturing quality or designing processes to minimize quality blemishes.

Case in point, I urge you to watch this video regarding Supra development. You will notice key differences in how BMW and Toyota do things. This video suggests that BMW indeed practices poorer quality control than Toyota.

Also, I believe it was Toyota that improved Porsche quality. There are several articles on the topic. Porsche is reputed to be the most reliable of German makes.

And yeah, my 2006 Mazdaspeed6 has rear fender wheel well rust issues, but I expect that for any car regularly driven in the salt belt, ripping with winter tires.
 

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Not sure why some people here think that German cars are not reliable or can't be owned out of warranty. I have owned Jaguar's, BMW's, and Porsche's and all three easily ran over 100,000 miles with no major issues. This was my 2007 Jaguar xk which I bought new and sold at 130,000 miles with only one single issue in my entire ownership: The clock spring went bad. It was fixed for $340 at the dealer.
Many will tell you how terrible a Jaguar/LandRover is and I can confirm that it is simply not true.

Euro cars are just as reliable as any other car and yes they can be owned out of warranty. Don't believe the negative views that are posted here. Go shopping and get the car that you really want. Don't settle. I bought the Mazda3 because I just love its looks. Period. Had I listened to the Lexus owners they would all tell me not to get a Mazda because they are not as good as a Lexus. Pure nonsense.
 

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Many will tell you how terrible a Jaguar/LandRover is and I can confirm that it is simply not true.
Thanks for your data points. Their track record isn't very good, so your experience helps. I hope to see more experiences like yours. Unfortunately, I don't see many with your good fortune in my personal experience.

Some samples:
* my brother's 2 year old Macan S that's constantly in the shop which included a leaking valve cover; d
* current neighbor with MB ML class with constant electrical issues; owner is extremely familiar with dealership espresso and scones
* my kid's coach's BMW 540i with transmission issues; he promptly replaced that with X5
* my boss's Land Rover LR4 with constant powertrain issues
* an acquaintance's Land Rover Evoque gave so much problems, she replaced with Audi Q7
* my real estate agent with Jaguar XJ8 with faulty electricals
* my brother's GTI with constant PCV issues and sagging headliner
* my personal experience with VW Passat

The only pleasant experience I had with a German car was my father's W124 (MB 200E). That was well made and ran forever. And to be fair, I have another neighbor who never had problems with both his B7 (sold at 100k+ miles) and his current B8 S4 (75k+ miles). Like you, he is in the minority of my personal experience.

Actually, I'm eyeing a used XJ8. That car is basically unchanged but tweaked and refined for a couple decades, so it should be good.

BTW, I found this post to be a pretty fair write-up on the topic. And yeah, CR and JD data can be better, but is there better available data without having to dive in yourself and find out? https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/05/are-german-cars-reliable-myth-german-engineering.html
 
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Not sure why some people here think that German cars are not reliable or can't be owned out of warranty. I have owned Jaguar's, BMW's, and Porsche's and all three easily ran over 100,000 miles with no major issues. This was my 2007 Jaguar xk which I bought new and sold at 130,000 miles with only one single issue in my entire ownership: The clock spring went bad. It was fixed for $340 at the dealer.
Many will tell you how terrible a Jaguar/LandRover is and I can confirm that it is simply not true.

Euro cars are just as reliable as any other car and yes they can be owned out of warranty. Don't believe the negative views that are posted here. Go shopping and get the car that you really want. Don't settle. I bought the Mazda3 because I just love its looks. Period. Had I listened to the Lexus owners they would all tell me not to get a Mazda because they are not as good as a Lexus. Pure nonsense.
Just because you have good luck does not mean German cars are Reliable.. I know many that have issues my self included.. Ask anyone that works on them at an import garage and they will tell you as well to stay away... Also numbers show this too... if you buy German your playing the odds!!! My buddy that own a Garage that fixes imports. He loves German cars because they keep him in business because there reliability is horrible, If you are worried about reliability then don't buy German. They are fun cars to drive when they work and look great.. but reliability nope!

And alot of people that buy these cars just buy them for the badge so they think they look rich.. Worst reason to by a car LOL!!
So If you want to think you look cool and be out of pocket go ahead and buy one, if you want quality and value for money look don't look at German cars.
 

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When I went to buy my new car, I took a look at Honda, Toyota and Subaru, and guess what all of the dealerships had in the repair area? Yep- brand new Honda's, Toyota's and Subaru's all getting repairs.
The five biggest recalls for the month of February were all Asian car manufacturers. Subaru has some very serious engine recalls, even the legendary Toyota is in the doghouse too.
Point is, no brand is immune. They all have their ups and downs.

https://www.cars.com/articles/recall-recap-the-5-biggest-recalls-in-february-2019-1420757491315/
https://start.att.net/news/read/art...than_400000_vehicles-rtime/category/lifestyle
Toyota Announced Second Massive Recall of Prius Hybrids in a Month | Fortune

Bottom line: Buy the car that you dream of, not the one with the absolutely fewest reported problems.
 

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This is a simply a numbers game. Out of 100 cars, one Toyota might have an issue while with a Jaguar/Land Rover/Tata twenty would have issues.

The key thing to remember is that the majority of people with the Jaguar/Land Rover/Tata will have no issue (the 80). To you, one of the 80, you will assume your experience is everyones experience.

See, math is simple.
 

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When I went to buy my new car, I took a look at Honda, Toyota and Subaru, and guess what all of the dealerships had in the repair area? Yep- brand new Honda's, Toyota's and Subaru's all getting repairs.
The five biggest recalls for the month of February were all Asian car manufacturers. Subaru has some very serious engine recalls, even the legendary Toyota is in the doghouse too.
Point is, no brand is immune. They all have their ups and downs.

https://www.cars.com/articles/recall-recap-the-5-biggest-recalls-in-february-2019-1420757491315/
https://start.att.net/news/read/art...than_400000_vehicles-rtime/category/lifestyle
Toyota Announced Second Massive Recall of Prius Hybrids in a Month | Fortune

Bottom line: Buy the car that you dream of, not the one with the absolutely fewest reported problems.
Those company recall because they care more for the customers... Hell even Mazda had a recall for spiders.... BMW has had cars caching on fire and no recall.. BMW said its not there issue and blamed it on the owners... Then BMW issued a recall for only a few effective cars because they were sued.. but yet some are still lighting up in flames and now some government bodys are looking into the issues.. that's just one example of many with these German manufactures . Also part of the reason Albert Beerman left BMW for Hyundai were BMW bad business practices..
 

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When I went to buy my new car, I took a look at Honda, Toyota and Subaru, and guess what all of the dealerships had in the repair area? Yep- brand new Honda's, Toyota's and Subaru's all getting repairs.
The five biggest recalls for the month of February were all Asian car manufacturers. Subaru has some very serious engine recalls, even the legendary Toyota is in the doghouse too.
Point is, no brand is immune. They all have their ups and downs.

https://www.cars.com/articles/recall-recap-the-5-biggest-recalls-in-february-2019-1420757491315/
https://start.att.net/news/read/art...than_400000_vehicles-rtime/category/lifestyle
Toyota Announced Second Massive Recall of Prius Hybrids in a Month | Fortune

Bottom line: Buy the car that you dream of, not the one with the absolutely fewest reported problems.

You are mixing apples and oranges. Recalls are not reliability issues. Recalls are safety concerns arising from manufacturing processes or design issues, reliability means not breaking down repeatedly. German cars are notorious for this. BMW ad VAG are always at the top of the list as far as maintenance costs when out of warranty. Its not just fixing things either. Many of those higher end cars need specific services to be performed at specific intervals, and this can also be very expensive. The thing you need to remember is that even though that $100k car now only cost $20k used, when its comes to repair costs its still a $100k car....:surprise:
 

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Oh ffs, an Audi A4 is not expensive to maintain. According to some, nobody should by a German car more than 3 years old. This is simply ludicrous.

The question was about a BMW 3 series or an A4, not a Porsche GT3RS. The roads are full of extremely high mileage German cars, they're everywhere. These sweeping generalizations help no one. I personally don't keep any car approaching 100k miles and I would never deny myself all that German cars bring to the table.

If you want the best daily driving performance car get a GTI, or just crow about japanese reliability as the end all be all. An A4 is a great car, I understand how one could test drive anA4 and realize it is superior to a Mazda, it's not a mystery to me.
 

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I'd take my ride over an A4.

The GT trim (sick lights, tech and seating) combined with upgraded sound dampening in all doors with Dynamat and upgraded Focal speakers combined with an LC8 and Alpine amp.. Continental Extreme Contact DWS06 tires.. overall way reduced NVH.

The great reliability and lower overall maintenance cost is just icing on the cake for me.
CK
 
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