2.0 v 2.5 bolt ons + tuned
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See my post here on a 2.5L running a CS CBE and cold air intake with airbox: http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/...81-corksport-cold-air-box-11.html#post2242338
Stock crank output is 184 and I've seen dyno runs at ~165 hp at the wheels.
I'll be updating post OVT tune as well.
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Only 20 hp loss at the wheels is not bad. I've seen some 2.0l motors with as much as 35.:smile2:
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Specs are always from the crank. Bhp is the measure before the power loss caused by the gearbox, alternator, differential, water pump, etc
Arathol is right, I've also seen bigger differences in others between bhp & whp. Skyactivs are very efficient. Mazda has left us lil to work with.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Arathol is right, I've also seen bigger differences in others between bhp & whp. Skyactivs are very efficient. Mazda has left us lil to work with.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Thank you for the link. 187hp/200tq no header with stock cat still?
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Just picked up a 2017 3S, manual trans. Doing the research on tuning and it seems that aftermarket intake and exhaust will add very little to performance.
Seems like either OV Tuning or DR tuning is the way to go and leave everything else factory? Your thoughts?
Seems like either OV Tuning or DR tuning is the way to go and leave everything else factory? Your thoughts?
If you just buy aftermarket parts like intakes and exhausts there will be little gain without a tune. Aftermarket intake, exhaust, headers, etc. with a tune will make a noticeable difference in everyday driving.
Since the engine is tuned to operate on stock equipment, so a tune is needed to recalibrate for new flows in and out from intake and exhaust mods. If that makes sense.
However, being stock and tuned makes a difference as well.
Are there any after market headers? I've seen ov and someone else make 2 different ones neither seems to have made it into production. No heads/cams or anything else correct?
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Most of those aftermarket bolt-ons don't do much if anything at all. Even when tuned, whatever small bit of power they might provide isn't worth the hundreds of dollars they will cost. Most of the stuff is either cosmetic or done to change the sound of the car.
Not going to happen anytime soon sorry to say. The car already has a long tube header that works, and so far there haven't been any offerings that work better.
Cams are out there if you can find them. BBR I think is about the only real source.
A decent tune can get a 2.0 Mazda 3 close to 180 hp at the crank, maybe a bit more depending on how well its done.
Nothing relating to MX-5 tunes or ECU applies to the Mazda 3.
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Technically speaking as long as any camshaft is not composite and is still machinable metal then cams are available for any engine.
The billets for new camshaft primarily used for performance camshafts are predominantly made in Asian countries and sold to cam grinders in lots. This is where the cost or availability becomes tricky. These day very few camshaft companies make there own billets anymore because of cost in labor and the material.
Besides..... the best cams out there will only yield on most 4 cylinders 5-12 HP at best ( I did not mention torque for a reason) and really need to be part of a complete head upgrade (ported and other performance enhancements) and on a ECU controlled engine tied together with a custom calibration that could be able to generate in the 30-50hp gains.
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Yes, of course cams can be made - $$$$. That is of course assuming billets can be had though, and they seem for some reason to be in short supply - :dunno: - one reason why OVT doesn't make them any more.
It also possible to weld and regrind a new profile. In fact, OVT is (or was anyway) doing regrinds ($520) for the MX-5 ND in limited numbers.
As for power, MX-5 owners with a 2.0l are reporting about 10hp peak gains (on top of whatever gains from tune, bolts ons etc) using the BBR 200 cams. Doesn't sound like much, but the power comes on sooner and stays on longer - more time and area under the curve. A stock motor will stop making power at around 6200 or so. With a tune and cams you can keep the power on until about 7200, at which point you could see at least 20+ hp over the point where the stock limiter kicked in.
It also possible to weld and regrind a new profile. In fact, OVT is (or was anyway) doing regrinds ($520) for the MX-5 ND in limited numbers.
As for power, MX-5 owners with a 2.0l are reporting about 10hp peak gains (on top of whatever gains from tune, bolts ons etc) using the BBR 200 cams. Doesn't sound like much, but the power comes on sooner and stays on longer - more time and area under the curve. A stock motor will stop making power at around 6200 or so. With a tune and cams you can keep the power on until about 7200, at which point you could see at least 20+ hp over the point where the stock limiter kicked in.
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I am questionable that *XYZ did anything more then contract a cam grinder to do the work and the profiles for them and use proprietary rights investments and agreement contracts with them to call them their camshaft specifications. Trust me on this one! :nerd:Kamshaft said:
I truly have my doubts that it is not a supply thing it is mostly as I said that companies(Asian predominantly) that manufacture raw billet cores dont as a rule ever sell less then 25 units and most the minimum basic order it is 50 or more. So unless a company say like company *XYZ (*made up name as not to be offend any vendor) do not want to invest in 25-50 raw billets (interest or past sales history effect decision)they often will word current availability of a camshaft like "they are on back order or that billets are in short supply".
Movin on......
It is not always necessary to weld a camshaft to get a performance profile.
Next:....
I am not going to debate or argue what people claim they get from camshafts regarding gains by the installation of the camshaft(s) by itself with no other supporting relevant parts or ECU calibration change(s) ... I personally know better!
Gotta ask why I know things that can not be easily found (if at all) by a general search on the internet about this whole subject about camshafts. :wink2:
Let me give a hint... I have often in the past "rolled up" stock camshafts. :smile2:
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As I recall the issue was that billets could not be sourced in enough quantity to make it practical as most went for actual production, spares are few and far between and having billets made up just for this was pretty expensive.
Yes, peak hp increase was with tune vs with tune + cam. The cams won't work without the tune. For best results a 93 octane tune is needed. E85 is better if available.
Bottom line here is there are cams if you can find them, and they are not cheap considering the fairly small power gains. However, if they are sourced from outside the US, don't expect to get the results claimed by the vendor as the ECUs in Europe seem to have different specs than US versions and yield different results. Or maybe the advertised claims are "optimized" as much as the cams are.....:smile2:
Yes, peak hp increase was with tune vs with tune + cam. The cams won't work without the tune. For best results a 93 octane tune is needed. E85 is better if available.
Bottom line here is there are cams if you can find them, and they are not cheap considering the fairly small power gains. However, if they are sourced from outside the US, don't expect to get the results claimed by the vendor as the ECUs in Europe seem to have different specs than US versions and yield different results. Or maybe the advertised claims are "optimized" as much as the cams are.....:smile2:
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Sorry I think I was not very good at my last explanation?
Many (most all) cam grinders in the US purchase raw billets from generally OUTSIDE the US to send to them so they can machine whatever there cam of the day is?
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2.5L with a handheld tune will do you plenty good for $500. I haven't used the throttle map cal, but hear it's glorious -- I'll find out in the Spring time once the harsh weather has let up. But for $500 and a handheld tuner, you get a completely different feeling 2.5L when you put the pedal down.
I've driven the 2.0L and 2.5L, the 2.5L is notably faster stock vs stock, but 2.5 aftermarket support is limited for the most part. The stock headers are plenty good. They look wild, but they do the job. As mentioned, exhaust and intake don't typically do much for the sheer cost of them. In most cases, it's a preference thing because someone wants a different sounding car, then the "placebo effect" takes hold with how much HP you're really gaining.
Again, 2.5L with an OVT tune (93 Octane if you have access to it) is the way to go. I jostle with torque steer occasionally, easily spin the tire (yes, singular) all the way through first gear. It's quite fun in sport mode, and the results honestly shocked me. While Mazda didn't leave us much to work with because they motor was already efficient, OVT's tune definitely brings it to life. Also, my gas mileage didn't change -- and if anything, it got slightly better surprisingly.
I've driven the 2.0L and 2.5L, the 2.5L is notably faster stock vs stock, but 2.5 aftermarket support is limited for the most part. The stock headers are plenty good. They look wild, but they do the job. As mentioned, exhaust and intake don't typically do much for the sheer cost of them. In most cases, it's a preference thing because someone wants a different sounding car, then the "placebo effect" takes hold with how much HP you're really gaining.
Again, 2.5L with an OVT tune (93 Octane if you have access to it) is the way to go. I jostle with torque steer occasionally, easily spin the tire (yes, singular) all the way through first gear. It's quite fun in sport mode, and the results honestly shocked me. While Mazda didn't leave us much to work with because they motor was already efficient, OVT's tune definitely brings it to life. Also, my gas mileage didn't change -- and if anything, it got slightly better surprisingly.
So stock header back exhaust and sri and a tune is about max for the 2.5, but it sounds like plenty of power for me to avoid another civic si. Looking at around 180-190hp and 200ish tq?
And the 2.0 has few more bolt ons getting it around 180/180? Higher revs and a few lbs lighter
And the 2.0 has few more bolt ons getting it around 180/180? Higher revs and a few lbs lighter
That seems to be a good estimate for those mods. There was a header and cams floating around in the early years of the 3rd gen from OV but they've been discontinued because of manufacturing difficulties that OV had since he couldn't find someone to make them in limited quantities. Making small batches is very expensive, at least that's what my engineering design, manufacturing and materials class taught lol.
If you join the Mazda3 Tuning group on facebook you might be able to find more numbers and results from others with cams/headers that got those limited quantities of intake and exhaust cams.
Edit: You can make more power if you run E85 if that's available in your area. Idk if OV does E85 tunes anymore though.
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